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This thing we do • View topic - TTWD - is it un-Christian?

TTWD - is it un-Christian?

feminist? Christian? Pagan? Athiest? Loving partner? Adult?...

if you let someone discipline you?

Well, I know that we *are* all of those things, or whatever else we define ourselves to be. But sometimes, we just need to check in with other people, and be reminded that we're not doing something bad or wrong.

TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby bethannie » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:45 pm

I am a Christian. I actually currently hold a leadership position within my Church. (I'm a Baptist).

So, TTWD...is it compatible with Christianity?

The Bible teaches that a wife should submit to her husband....but what about same sex relationships? ( I happen to identify as straight, but have a very liberal Christianity and believe God loves and accepts all His children - and so should we as Christians!) Or a husband submitting to his wife? Just because there is no Biblical precedent does that make this sinful? And even if it did (which i don't believe!) doesn't God forgive all sin? (OK - all sin except the 'unforgivable sin' which ain't TTWD!!!)

Some Christians accept a wife being submissive, but not discipline. Others accept discipline - takeninhand for example - but only from a husband to a wife. Is ignoring other relationships, or condemning them as sinful not hypocritical?

Christ told the young man who came to Him, that to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, you need to love God and love one-another. 'Do this' He said 'and you will have fulfilled God's law' - (rough translation!)...Well, I have no problem with that! I love God. I try hard to love others.

As a Christian, I spend time with my Father. He constantly tels me He loves me. There are times when I know He is displeased with me..if I am angry and refuse to patch up a quarrel; if I am wilful; if I allow myself to be eaten up by jealousy....He also gets sad if I fail to look after myself (eating regularly/healthily!) or get depressed...but NEVER has He shown any problem with TTWD.

So why do I feel ashamed? Why is necessary for me to hide this part of my life? I accept it. God accepts it. Why isn't this enough? :hmm:

Being a Christian is part of who am I am. As is submission. As is masochism. If God has no problem with this, why does the Church? What right do they have to make me feel ashamed?

God tells me I am beautiful. I am made in His image. He loves me - just as I am! I am fearfully and wonderfully made - I am His creation (He made me this way!) I am precious in His sight.....surely this is more important than what a handful of people think of me?

So, OK...I'm not going to walk into Church tomorrow and tell them exactly who and what I am...but neither am I going to allow myself to feel 'dirty' - Not loving myself, that is the sin...not TTWD.

Don't really know where this post is going - just felt like letting it all out of my system!...thanks for listening :)
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby DaddysLucy » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:55 pm

I do not identify as Christian, so I won't have any scriptural references for what I have to say. But my instinct is to say that this is where consent comes in to play. If you and your partner are consenting to a certain type of power dynamic, and it brings comfort and support to you both, and you feel like you have the best relationship possible within this dynamic, then I would say that there is nothing unChristian about that. If TTWD brings out the best in you and your partner, and fosters open communication and brings you both peace, I think that should be fine. And if you are a Christian, and believe that God made man (and woman) in his own image, then I don't see how being predisposed to a certain kink would be excluded from that. I think the important thing is that whatever dynamic exists between you and your partner fosters communication, respect, and love.
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby Eayore » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:39 pm

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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:03 pm

my experience is, there are lots of people in the world who find it very important not only to have a very clearly (rigidly, even) defined path for themselves, but to enforce that path for everyone else.

but pretty much everyone picks and chooses which rules of their religion they will follow. it's been a few years (er... decades. sheesh.) since i read the new testament, but one thing i remember is that most of the rigidity came from people like paul (who, you'll remember, never actually met jesus. just for the record). jesus himself was a lot less rigid about the rules he followed.

and boy, if i were willing to be a little less respectful of other people's houses of worship, i would SO do some performance art that involved going into one of the megachurches with a bunch of stuff for sale in the lobby, asking out loud, "what *would* jesus do? oh, right!!" and then wrecking the place. but then, i figure if people are going to try to impose their beliefs on me, they darned well better be holding true to their beliefs. but unlike jesus, i'm not willing to go around stirring things up that much.
:teeter:
but the point i was actually trying to make is this: there are people who are all over the map about what and how they believe, and christianity has a really wide range of how people practice it. i grew up going to churches where they disapproved even of reading the narnia books, madeleine l'engle, and susan cooper. probably also tolkein, but i wasn't into those yet. they said those books were un-christian. if you're familiar with the authors, they are actually *deeply* christian, and the christian symbolism in the books is really thinly veiled. but the books also spoke out against the kind of religion that spends more time telling people they are evil than actually doing good in the world.

but i had read those books, and absorbed the (apparently subversive) principles they taught long before my church tried to tell me (and my parents) it was wrong for me to read them. and there was no going back. i couldn't help but prefer a religion where it was more important to listen to the small still voice inside of me than the loud, critical voices speaking from the pulpit.

all of which is to say, i think that done with respect for each other, and from a loving place, there is nothing wrong with ttwd. done in a way that is disrespectful of either party, or that makes them into less of a whole person... that is sinful.

and you can define that for yourself.
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby Naughty butt Nice » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:28 am

I am a christian, however, I currently do not attend any church. I find that every church is both right and wrong. I can see the right in some of what they teach, but I can see the wrong in some of it also. I feel that if I am going to attend a church I need to agree with everything that they teach, not just pick and choose and I have not found one that follows everything that I believe in (including ttwd). I also find that the majority of people who attend those churches are very hypocritical and judgemental (not everyone, please do not take offense).

I do not feel that ttwd is against God or his teachings. He says that our bodies are temples and that we are to treat them as such and if you need a little outward reinforcement to make you treat your body as a temple then so be it. Isn't it written in the bible that if you spare the rod you spoil the child. Well, don't all of us still have a little child in us that rears it's head and gets us in trouble. Also, aren't we also taught that cleanliness is next to Godliness, once again some of us need a little outside reinforcement to bring this to light. The bible also says love all people not just the opposite sex, so I see nothing wrong with the fact that there are those in the world who find themselves in love with someone that just happens to share the same sexual identity. I also am not one of those that thinks that if two people of the same sex gets married that it will somehow taint my marriage or make a mochery (not sure how to spell that) of it (this is something that I have heard some people say). I think God loves everyone and expects the rest of us to follow suit.

In the end aren't we all suppose to try and be our very best and to do what we feel is right in the sight of (insert head of your religion here whether it be God, Buddha, etc.). I think that if you look back at the Old Testament then you will see that God very much agrees with corpral punishment, heck wasn't it him that wiped out the whole of Earth (minus Noah, his family, and 2 of every animal). If you think getting your behind spanked with a hand or implement is bad then try getting completely wiped out just because you were so bad. I do believe that God wants us to do whatever it takes to be good people.

PS. Sorry if I was long winded. Also, sorry I don't know the scriptures for my quotes, but I'm not that familiar with the bible, I just try to live the best life I can from what I understand of the bible. :bubblegum:
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby bethannie » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:58 pm

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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby Eayore » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:40 am

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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby johnm » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:39 pm

I am a Christian and hurt deeply for those Christians who have doubts about "this thing we do." God made both sexes. He created sex and the capacity for other acts we might engage in that require privacy and confidentiality.

One of these is adult consentual spanking, regardless of which gender is spanked. A verse in Epehsians chapter 5 says that in marriage, each partner should submit to the other. So the husband can spank the wife and the wife can spank the husband. This activity may or may not have sexual connotations. Both parties must freely agree that this is desirable--it might be for play, for discipline, for any reason the couple decides as long as this is something both want to do. In my relaitonship ( am male) I am the one who is spanked. My wife is lovely and being over her lap may have elicit erotic responses. But the pain and embarrassment are very real as are the affection and nurture that follow.

Outside marrige, I have have no familiarity with this practice so hate to try to add some wisdom.

Bless you all.
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby bodack » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:57 pm

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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby Homeatlast » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:01 am

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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby Sara'sGirl(SG) » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:23 pm

I have spent mos of my life thinking that TTWD IS un-Christian, and my first in person experience with it was with a fellow baptist missionary who agreed with me wholeheartedly on that, and decided (literally) to try to beat it out of me. It didn't work.

Having earned a Master's from "the largest evangelical seminary" in the world (which is Southern Baptist to boot), I came to TTWD (and my sexuality!) with a lot of baggage.

Some of it I still carry with me, on a variety of levels, and it HAS greatly impacted my relationship with God. I don't attend church anymore, I avoid fellowship with other believers, and from someone who 3 years ago was entrenched in seminary studies and planning to be a missionary....that is hard.

What I cling to when I am uncertain of any of it is that the highest commandment God has given us is to love. Without love, there is no God, and if someone claims to know Him, but doesn't show love, then they don't. As far as I can tell, God values love above any of "His" other "rules" so I hold on to that, and the fact that love, then, cannot be wrong.

*shrugs* I'm all emo lately, dunno what's up with that.
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or you're breaking down

~Idina Menzel

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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby BickaBecka » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:32 pm

My one argument that I use for a lot of things (which is especially needed being a Catholic lesbian) is that at the time of reckoning, I'd rather it was said that I did what I thought was right, even though I was told not to, than have it said that I did what I thought was wrong because I was told to.
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:25 pm

:yeahthat:

bec--wow. i may steal that line. as you might guess, i completely agree with it.

i'm probably lucky that i dealt with moving away from being a christian before i had to deal with coming out as a lesbian, or with ttwd. it means that my feelings about these aspects of myself weren't nearly as tangled up with my feelings about organized christianity. although i do consider myself very thoroughly culturally christian (hey, if jewish people can be culturally jewish, why can't i be culturally christian?)

i still believe in god, in the sense that i believe there is an intelligent power or powers outside of myself that are beyond human comprehension, and therefore while i might personify them, i recognize for the most part that there is no way any person can say definitively what he/she/it/they do or do not approve of. so the only thing i have to go on is my sense of myself, and how things make me feel. and things that make me more whole make me feel closer to the divine, and becoming closer to divine must be the right path to follow. at least, that's how i mostly go about it.

i know that the people in this world who have made me feel most sinful are people who were the least close to the divine as i understand it. so if they are trying to make me feel shame for who i am, or what i do, and people who seem more in touch with those higher powers support who i am and what i do, then i'm gonna do my best to tune out the voices of shame.

or something like that. :)
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby BickaBecka » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:38 am

Quite an interesting philosophy there...

And yes, by all means, feel free to use that line.
The same goes for anyone.

-Bec
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Re: TTWD - is it un-Christian?

Postby Naughty butt Nice » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:55 pm

I know I'm bringing to life an old topic however I just wanted to say that the reason most people feel ashamed or embarrassed about TTWD is because for 1) society says we should and 2) TTWD is a very intimate subject between the people involved and to find out that others feel negatively about something you feel so strongly about really affects us. After all most humans crave approval.
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