Saying hello!

[splorange]

I'm so happy to see 3 responses in quick succession, that I'm going to dive in and talk as well. I know it would be better, as well as more polite, to give a reasoned response to what you ladies bring up as your own situations, but I'm going to let that slide for now, because I need to read them more deeply and reflect first, and right now on a rainy hungover Saturday that won't be happening. But I want to keep the thread going, so more about me right now and I promise to engage better with you both in the near future!

Well, being single now I am looking exclusively at ttwd as self-discovery. Its function in building and developing a relationship will have to wait for me, though I'm interested to hear and compare other people's stories about fitting their lives together with another. I want to feel and live my emotions instead of suppressing them (as I have done for most of my life) without being overwhelmed by them (as I was last year). I am trying to find that balance, not lying to myself about what I feel, while realising that I have control as well, over what I do if not over what I feel. And I'm trying to be more open and generous to others, and practising humility. This is pretty much a solo endeavour. I don't have any sexual partner or even a spanking partner. But I've found professional relationships can activate that part of me as well. Teachers or chamber music partners, depending on their own personalities, require my submission, my honesty, or my generosity (delete as applicable). I try to engage with that in difficult scenarios, trying to put my emotional development, or their needs, or the needs of the task at hand, ahead of my ego or pride. I'm sure I'll come up with a concrete example soon enough.

In terms of practical self-discipline - well, sometimes there I am still succumbing to self-harm. I don't like to post details about it in public though, in case there are impressionable lurkers of a masochistic bent who might take my ideas. I'll discuss it fairly freely in private messages though, at least with any of you 3. I may even initiate such myself. I know it's not ideal, but please don't worry about me. My emotional state is fragile, but flexible, and I have a lot of hope.

[blackbird]

I'm so glad you took the dive that was necessary - and found help, though you are too hard on yourself!! Write more when you can.

BB

[LadyShriver1]

Yes, please write more when the time is right.

I admit, I'm a bit curious. I know where my line mightt fall between self discipline and self harm...where is it falling for you? (assuming you are comfortable discussing)

[splorange]

Season's greetings to all!

LadyShriver - I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand your question. And it sounds like it could be a very interesting one, so could you clarify when you get a chance please? About why discipline works for you where self-harm wouldn't, and why is it not so much the case for me? Or something else entirely?

[artlover]

Happy New Year to everyone who still checks in periodically.

[Eayore]

Yes, Happy New Year to everyone!

Sorry I haven't been around for a while. I am going to give some thought to the things said here and hope to post in the near future.

[LadyShriver1]

Happy (belated!) New Year! sorry I haven't posted...busy with vacations, year end stuff, year start stuff...etc.

Anyhow, if you're still checking in Splorange, my question was more about how you determine what is self harm and what is self discipline. For me, I think it would be mindset, as opposed to the intensity or type of punishment. For example, if I deny myself a night out because I procrastinated on a work task, that would seem self discipline, but if I didn't go on a long awaited weekend outing because I've been bad and don't deserve a getaway, I would see that as self harm. By the same token, I've had many a welt or bruise from a spanking, which doesn't bother me, but if I "cut" that would be self harm in a different way. If you wish to discuss specifics, you're welcome, but I mostly wondered if you are defining the way you slip into self harm based on the way you feel, the type of punihsment, the intensisty, the effect, or something else entirely.

Hope the New year finds everyone well.

[Eayore]

For me, ttwd was about self knowledge, and growing as a person and a couple. It's so hard for me to see the references online to breaking bad habits and becoming disciplined (especially those that haphazardly reinforce gender stereotypes) because for me, that was never the attraction

In my case, I think the order of my interest in TTWD was: (1) the 'need' to be physically punished, then (2) wanting the punishment to be useful in some way... hence focusing on breaking bad habits, and finally (3) realising that punishment by itself was not capable of changing my behaviour, and that I had to want to change - hence I achieved a small amount of self knowledge. Along the way I also came to accept myself and this 'need' I felt; and I stopped feeling so threatened by it.

At the outset, it was quite terrifying for me to have these feelings. I think I was most terrified about other people finding out and then judging and rejecting me - and of course thinking I was ridiculous.

I'm not sure how much of this would resonate with what you were saying, splorange. I can certainly appreciate how your search for self knowledge and personal growth is a really attractive place to be starting. I just don't think I could claim to be at that level. I'd love to hear more details about how it works for you.

[LadyShriver1]

Eayore...what a great description of how you came to your understanding of DD...it really mirrored my own. I have had the need to be spanked for as long as I can remember. It took TTWD to help me understand that their could be a purpose for the experience aside from satisfying my needs.

[blackbird]

I disagree with you Eayore! I think it takes a great deal of self-knowledge and more importantly, courage, to have gone on your path. Especially as you started along it with someone who didn't have the same desires as you. I admire anyone who has acknowledged their sexuality as, first and foremost an important need in it's own right, and secondly a route to improvement. That's a loaded term, I'm still working on it....

It's interesting to me at the moment that T is the one taking up the reigns of ttwd as I've been quite ill and uninterested in it all this month. Perhaps I am going to find out more about how he needs it - it has largely been my expressed need in the past. Anyone else had that experience, of the motivation changing round? At the moment all he can say is it makes him feel powerful. I think I would add "wanted" to that, but he isn't there yet.

BB

[splorange]

I spent so long composing a reply to everything you had said, that the site logged me out, and I lost it all. I haven't the energy to go there again. Maybe tomorrow. Love to all.

[blackbird]

Oh no!! Take heart, Splorange, and write again....

BB

[splorange]

Thanks for replying! It's so encouraging to feel there are people here again. I'll do a little at a time.

Eayore, I also can't agree that I could be further along this road than you, people's needs are just different. I identify strongly with your feeling that punishment to change behaviour doesn't work without an internal desire to change. On the other hand, your experience of not being able to accept this in yourself is not at all something I've experienced. I'm cautious about who I tell (though I'm not universally secret about my interests in BDSM sexuality - but I only share it with close friends, never colleagues or family). But in myself I find this need quite natural and not at all shameful. I struggle plenty with other things though! It's interesting how gender expectations might have played into our differing experiences there. And so harmful, that you found it hard to accept something that makes you happy and hurts nobody.

I used ttwd as a tool to change bad habits as well - but like both Eayore and Lady Shriver, the primary motivation was probably to have a reason to use ttwd. If I weren't attracted to it, I'm certain I wouldn't have thought 'hey, if I had this really unpleasant punishment every time I was late for something, I bet I wouldn't be late anymore.' What's interesting though is that we kept it around bad habits that I had a strong desire to change, and wouldn't find it very difficult to change - procrastinating on work tasks being the main one. It was uncomplicated and pretty successful - I failed just enough to keep the spankings coming, but we arranged the rules so that I'd have to change to avoid spankings that pushed me further than I liked. I guess now where my interest is, is towards using discipline surrounding behaviours that I am both drawn to and struggle with. This is psychologically a little darker, and scarier territory. I think Blackbird seems to have made the most movement in that direction of us. I'm also interested to hear how things go with T now he's finding his own needs as a top and you're disinclined to push him.

On the other hand, what we might well have done which would have been quite damaging to me, is to use discipline to push me on areas I have anxiety around. I struggle a lot with long term decision making, confronting authority, and related areas (actually - not positive what... worth a think). I might hesitate to practise the piano because I'm feeling a bit lazy. But I feel something on the continuum of dread to terror at the thought of making work phone calls. Punishment around those, though it would seem more logical since my inability to do it has a much more detrimental effect on my life than being slow to motivate myself on simpler tasks, would probably have made me hate myself even more, and made me feel powerless.

Lady Shriver, I also haven't forgotten your excellent point which made me think a lot, but I'll come back to it in a while.

[blackbird]

You express this all so well, S. It is indeed a rocky road to finding discipline for the right things, and you are spot on imo about not having anxiety made worse by it. At the moment, mine revolves around doing a journal daily, and times when I can drink (BIG deal in my life). But as an agoraphobic, T would never make getting on a bus a requirement. That would be cruelty. The dynamic has to be subtler than that, and treated overall with compassion, for both parties.

I love the way you tell it, that we wouldn't be even thinking about it all, if it weren't for the sexual desire for it in the first place! I am endlessly fascinated by the attraction vs very real fear I have about spankings.

Keep writing! It's so very interesting.

BB

[LadyShriver1]

I had such an interesting experience along the lines of "what is discipline for" that I decided to make it a new topic, "TTWD worked and freaked me out!"