Is this lying in your book?

[lana]

Question: is it lying?
Hi everyone (If this is the wrong place to put this thread please move it)
I just got a severe paddling and caning from my HOH for lying and accidently ruining my new cell phone by not checking my pockets and putting it thru the wash. This is the 3rd cell phone I have either ruined or lost plus i lost my ipod too. And the punishment was for a few other things that I neglected to do like missed my mammogram appt while he was away for 10 days.

I am left feeling like okay I was very careless but i still dont think this was fair. Heres why: one of the reasons i got spanked was for 'lying by omission'(meaning not telling him something serious i did wrong) when all i was trying to do was dry the cellphone out and fix it before I told him. I read that if you remove the battery and put it in the a bag of rice for 12 hours it would dry out. This didnt work and the cellphone is ruined. If it had started working again, I eventually would have told him after he got home and he wouldnt have been as upset& mad if the $320 cellphone hadnt been ruined- even if he knew it almost was.

He says I should have called him on another phone right away and told him what happened since he thought i had turned it off on purpose (not allowed) or that something was the matter with me. I would prefer to first try to improve the situation as best I can; and if I cant' fix it, to pick the right time for telling him the bad news.
This is something that we often disagree about. I admit that the thought of getting spanked does motivate me to try to find a solution before telling him, but I still dont call this lying. As usual my hoh is way too strict about this and can't see it from my pov.

Question for hohs: If your gf/wife/partner did this (delayed telling you about a problem she caused until after its fixed) would you considerate it to be lying or being considerate?

And for subs "Would your hoh prefer to know after the problem is solved or right away? And is it lying if you delay telling him about it till the right time?"
Carrie
Carrie

[JigsawAnalogy]

I think it's a complicated situation. I would probably work to rectify a situation before bringing it up with W, but that's largely because that's how our dynamic works. I am generally not punished for carelessness (which is how I'd interpret running a cell phone through the laundry!). My rules are mostly about things I'm supposed to do (like eating meals) and so long as the thing gets done in the appropriate time frame, I wouldn't be punished for it, so it would be a non-issue. If it's about something I'm *not* supposed to do (say, smoking), there isn't really something I could do to fix it if I broke that rule.

I, personally, think it's unreasonable to have punishments that I couldn't have predicted would get me in trouble, if I'd taken a moment to think about what I was doing. So if you didn't know that he would consider failing to mention the cell phone a matter of lying by omission, that would be something I'd consider unfair. But, if it were something where you thought about it, and realized he'd be upset at you not mentioning it... that seems like a fair punishment.

In my own relationship, we're pretty careful to make sure that I agree that a punishment is justified when I'm receiving it. If I don't think I deserve it, that doesn't work out well, and the punishment is less effective. W generally takes the time to explain why I'm in trouble, and I generally speak up if I think some aspect of the punishment is unfair. That's how things work for us, but it might not be how things are set up for you. What I know with myself is, if I think a punishment is unfair, it's less likely to be effective for me. W and I consider ourselves to be equals in this relationship, and she works hard to see my point of view, as I work hard to see hers. It wouldn't work well for me if she were being too strict (not that *that's* happened yet, but that's probably because she would rather err on the side of fairness, and that's a good solution for our relationship).

[lana]

Thank you for your feedback JA. I dont think it is easy to solve this question either.
But to answer you --we dont have a dd arrangement like yours where I can disagree with individual decisions and avoid getting punished. My hoh is totally in charge of punishments--if I get them and what they will be. However he is always willing to listen to feedback and my opinions if I dont see it the same way as he does-- its just that if he disagrees and believes i broke a serious rule and have earned a serious spanking, then I will get it.

Most of the time we agree and its pretty clear if a rule has been broken. But in cases like this where it is not clear he seems to side with the worst interpretation of things(like in this case he says I was not calling him because I hoped that if the phone worked I would not get spanked for my extreme carelessness (not checking all the pockets when doing the laundry)because I would not have told him what happened once it started working
To my hoh lying is very serious offense all the time because it undermines our relationship and causes a breech of trust.
I OTOH I say that everyone filters what they tell people and most people do tell white lies. Because of my role in the DD of being the sub, i feel i am treated unreasonably strictly-- if i dont tell him something the instant it happens I am "lying by omission" and lying is a capital offense against the relationship. I get no time to fix what happened before telling him-- like anyone else would .do to be considerate and responsible and to be given a chance to right the wrong..

Another instance was about our dog who got loose due to my carelessness and I went out and after a long time I found him and brought him home. My hoh heard from a neighbor that he was loose and was po'ed i hadnt called him &told him the second it happened.
Sometimes I feel that myHOH, being that he is naturally a dom, wants to have a reason for a long spanking every so often so he makes his judgments in a negative light and holds me up to way higher standards than what is normal.

i am sorry to go on about this. I know my hoh will not change his mind about this issue, but i needed to vent to someone. I hope some others will give their opinion to the questions that I asked.
Carrie

[JigsawAnalogy]

I should clarify that it's not so much that I can avoid getting punished as that we both make sure we've communicated about what's going on. So we talk and discuss until the point where either I've accepted that I deserve the punishment, or W recognizes that it really isn't fair and modifies the punishment.

Example: if I say something rude, and W responds by giving me 3000 lines (slight exaggeration). I will give feedback about why I think it's unfair (it will take me more than 24 hours to write that many lines). We then discuss our views of the severity of my offense, and whether the consequence is reasonable. W will generally acknowledge if she believes she was unintentionally harsh, and will modify the punishment accordingly (say, making it 300 lines instead).

Example 2: I walk out of the house in the middle of an argument. This both upsets and worries W. She responds by grounding me for 2 weeks, which feels unfair to me. I state my case, and she responds with a description of her viewpoint. She makes it clear to me how serious she is, and how much she wants to discourage me from repeating the behavior. I don't like it, but I accept that she is right, and comply with the punishment.

It occurs to me that both of those examples are non-spanking punishments. I have to admit that, with a spanking, the discussion tends to be less formal. If I'm getting a spanking that feels too severe for the circumstances, I'm likely to wind up getting pushed into a panic attack, and things rapidly fall apart because I've gotten triggered. Times when a punishment seems unfair, but isn't triggering, I generally discuss it with her afterwards, and explain what was going on for me, and why it felt harsh.

W and I spend a whole lot of time communicating about what's going on, and what is or isn't working for us. It's important to both of us that neither of us feels like something is unfair. It doesn't mean I can weasel out of things--we have a rule specifically against that!--but it does mean that we both value fairness and communication.

Ah well. I wrote a novel, and probably what you really wanted was sympathy with the venting.

As for whether or not I think it's lying... I'd say I'm about 50/50 on it. I don't think it's wrong to wait a bit before letting W know that something happened, but, as I said, I'm generally not punished for carelessness, and I do own up when I've broken a rule. I would personally feel concerned that something deeper was wrong, if I felt a need to lie and/or fail to mention things to avoid a punishment.

I'm curious: were you the one to initiate ttwd in your relationship, or was it your partners, or did you both enter the relationship with an interest in it? (You don't have to answer that one, I'm just curious.)

[TryingReallyHard]

Lying by omission to me is more like, "What happened to your phone?" "Hm, it just wouldn't turn on." Thereby completely omitting the whole "I put it through the laundry," detail and that to me is a lie of omission.

Can you get a better idea of what is expected? Like have specific instructions for when the dog gets out? Catching the animal would have been 1st priority for us, it honestly wouldn't have occurred to me to call him before I caught the dog.

If it were me, the problem would be that I feel it is unfair which makes me not feel cared-for or taken-care-of, which (for us) is one of the big points of TTWD. If RH wants to give me a ass-blistering spanking because it's Monday, he's free to do so, but it would hurt my feelings if he said it was because I did something that I didn't feel like I did. I don't feel like I'm explaining myself very well, but I can't think of how else to say it...

[Julia]

Hello Carrie,

I don't want to rain on your parade, but if I had put my phone through the wash and not told K immediately, I may never have sat down again! For us, it's not primarily about lying or about carelessness in this case. You said that you have rules about not turning your phone off or being out of touch without him knowing about it. THAT's the rule I'd have been in trouble for. If I am supposed to be contactable and am not, K would start to worry about me. She would not worry immediately but after a couple of hours, she'd start to get concerned. If I had my phone buried in the rice bag for 12 hours, she'd be going mad thinking I was in jail or hospital or some other unpleasant place.

Would I be in trouble in your situation? You bet I would! I'd be punished pretty severely for not telling her about the phone because it is a rule I knew about, it's a rule that is designed to keep me safe and it's a rule that, if broken, causes K to worry pretty badly over time. Icould guarantee a corporal punishment and I could guarantee a "classroom grade" implement. (That is, a cane, a Lochgelly tawse or a severe paddle like a long wooden or lexan one - not a spanky type one). It would be a significant punishment that I'd really know about. (squirming as I write!)

Once that punishment gets done with, then we'd talk about the carelessness with the washing, taking care of my expensive possessions etc., etc., etc.. Further punishments may or may not follow depending largely on my own attitude to the whole thing. If I feel bad about being careless, chances are I'd get a heap of lines because they let a sort of calm acceptance settle over me in time. If I'm feeling bratty and denying responsibility, I might get a long, steady spanking with a prolonged talking to until my attitude changes. etc.

If you were living in our house and you did that with K instead of your husband you ought to be running for cover right about now.

Sorry about that! I don't suppose it's what you wanted to hear, is it?

[TryingReallyHard]

[JigsawAnalogy]

I think that whether or not it's lying depends very much on all that's gone before in the relationship.

The funny thing is, most of the stuff described here is stuff W is more likely to do than I am. And she will often respond to having done something careless and/or not being able to do something on her own by trying to do it, and then I don't find out about it until it's become something of a disaster. So if that were a pattern, and I were the top, there would probably be a rule along the lines of "Tell me something went wrong as soon as you know it went wrong!" But then, I'm inclined to be lenient, and if she'd managed to solve the problem before I needed to know about it, I most likely wouldn't be upset. It's more a matter of, not telling me ASAP and then not being able to fix it, means that I will be *more* upset when I do find out.

With me and W, lying by omission can also include failing to mention something that I know I ought to mention to her. I'm not all that good at outright lying, but I'm fairly well able to just not mention something I don't want to talk about. So if W doesn't think to ask about something, I might opt just not to mention it, and that does count.

Carrie: can you explain more about the calling immediately thing? I'm not sure if I've got a realistic sense of what's expected of you. (Not that I have to, of course!)

[Julia]

It sounds to me as if you two need to clarify this point.

If you decide, "Failing to fee up immediately when you break a rule is counted as lying by omission" then you will avoid the confusion, internal conflict and sense of unfairness in future. Although you will still get the punishment I expect!

If you decide, "Failing to fee up immediately when you break a rule is NOT counted as lying by omission" you will avoid all the above too. Although I can't make any guarantees about punishments in this case!

It's time to talk and clear the air from the sound of it. Is that possible with your husband? I hope so.

Good luck to both of you.

[Eayore]

My reasoning would be similar to what Julia said. Being unable to contact somebody on their cellphone is frustrating and can be frightening too, especially if you have an agreement that they will always be contactable. Hence, I don't thinking punishment is out of order in this case.

The example with the dog seems quite different to me. Perhaps there was a practical reason why HOH needed to know immediately, but right now I can't see what that was.

Calling either of these cases "lying" does not feel quite right to me. I think that clouds the issue somewhat.

I would like to share something about my own ideas on this subject - which is not to say I think it applies to you or anyone else! I often dream of having a situation like the one you describe... Usually, I fantasise I have a governess who punishes me severely for lying, and only she can decide what constitutes a lie, and she has an impossibly strict definition of honesty and dishonesty. In my dreams, I think that will make me a better, and totally truthful person. However, in reality I suspect it would make me rather neurotic, depressed and incredibly devious!

[lana]

Thanx for ur replies
To answer your question about me carelessly letting the dog get loose. I didnt tell him at all but i would have after dinner when he was settled--. because in my eyes the problem was solved. Unfortunately, he found out from the neighbor, who asked him if we found our dog yet;. and he put it on his list as carelessness and lying by omission. The list is what is used for our weekly reviews (spanking night.) This is a night like a date night every wednesday when both of us have agreed not to make any other plans for any reason. These kind of spankings arent as bad as the one I got for the cell phone thing .



To Julia-thanx for ur honesty even tho not what i wanted to hear. Remember i couldnt call my HOH cuz my cell was wrecked. It was new and expensive so i wanted to fix it before i told him Id washed it. I didnt want him upset if it could be fixed. As for him wondering what was wrong I assumed he would have called me on our home phone if he was worried. He doesnt panic about me not answering since i turn it off for a lot of allowed reasons , and often just forget to turn it back on for awhile or it is being charged.so it is a minor offense that he puts on his list if he is annoyed by not being able to reach me. (But this time i know it was turn off longer than normal)

And Julia I did get a very bad punishment--waaay worse than normal-- because besides the cell thing and lying, I hadnt drunk all the water bottles he bought and missed my mammogram appt while he was away. He had already decided what to do by the time he found out about the appt so really he listened but only pro forma-- not really. He listens to my side, tells me the punishment, and i am allowed to argue up to a point but once he says its enough and i need to bendover then I am getting spanked I have no choice. In our DD arrangement, my HOH has the total sayso in regards to punishments.

It was too many to count with the leather paddle for warm up and then 24 with the cane and then strict CT 15 minutes and then more lecturing &30 with the wooden paddle and then 6 extras w the loopy for delaying and getting out of position, Then 15 more minutes of strict CT. Then I will have 3 hours of supervised chores coming because it was arepeat offense. ( I need crying smilie and angry smilie but cant see them) This was one of the worst and longest spankings Ive ever gotten.
Have to go right now but will answer JA later.
Carrie

[Julia]

[JigsawAnalogy]

[Julia]

[Eayore]