what if does wrong...

[juliet]

dear all,
I was surfing on the net and I red something in a blog that I am still wondering about... I feel I little bit in anguish, please help me.
I've realized I really have no clues in such situation and, surprisingly, no source mentions it. I'll go in depth.

It would seem that DD is heaven on heart and everybody is happy and goes on for all his/her life long, but what if DD goes wrong and one of the two wants to quit and the other not?

The blog I red, reported a kind of couselling between the blogger and a guest. The latter started saying that his lady was continuously reluctant to submit to punishments, and always desperately crying, and locking herself in the bathroom saying she did not want to go that way any longer... and her HoH, surprisingly, was asking the "expert" how hard he could punish her to make her go back to her place. And the so-called-expert was vomiting a lot of awful advices on figging, and submitting her to hundrends of strokes with the hardest implements he had, and encouraging hoh to insist and to introduce daily hard mantainance spankig. It was escalating to sadism, but the most unbeliaveble thing to me that they were so focused on her obedience that were not really able to get the point. It seemed that they could not even consider and accept the situation as it clearly was.

I posted my original doubt: but if she wants to quit, as long as DD is supposed to be consensual, why not to let her go?
the so-called expert replied to me in such pedantic style that he would reccomend her to ask for a professional counselling that can help her in improving her wrong attitude, and than to make a careful balance of what she risked to lose quitting, and to explain her HoH why she was going to quit... and this and that.
I was quite shocked,( I am still while I am writing)
No problem with counsellors, but it seemed to be that this never ending story was just a way to put her under pressure and make her more difficult to quit. IF SHE SAYS NO LONGER, IT MUST BE NO LONGER! if any other husband would behave like that, he could be arrested as abuser or stalker!!!!

And then I have realized that I have never ever find any article, post, blog, book whatever, dealing with how to manage if it happens. you can see such a "consensus" of the benefits of DD, and who started never ever wanted to do without... and it seems that way back is not an option...

and it is so strange, because we all are human beings, and it can occur any time that a HoH hurts his lady in a way that she loses her trust, or develops a such strong resentment that ends the relationship, like in all the other non DD dynamics, but nobody says that. I do not want to hurt anybody's feelings, please forgive me in advance for what I am saying, it's just like in 50s hollywood movies when all the married couples were smiling and kissing goodbye on the threshold.

Why so much silence on such a normal, not preventable event? have I missed something? Are we trapped into a taboo?
what do you think? Have I misanderstood something? Please, let me understand, so I can heal from this sorrow that seems not to want to give any rest to me.
julie

[PrttyinPnk]

I have two answers for you. One is simple, the other is complicated.

The simple answer? Abusive people exist in every facet of our society and we have to accept that it is no different with DD relationships. It is never ok to force someone to be in this type of relationship, and if she is truly being forced to participate, she should leave him.

The complicated answer....you know that phrase "no means no"? The word "no" is a little more complicated in these kinds of lifestyles. I know when I'm getting a hard spanking I'm wailing no. We have an agreement that he is to never touch my physically in areas I haven't agreed to. But when he is spanking my thighs, I guarantee I'm saying "not my thighs!". The point being, in this type of relationship, it can be confusing if the spankee is insisting they don't want to participate in this type of lifestyle...right before a spanking. If she was saying she didn't want to participate during a calm, quiet moment? Then its abuse for him to continue.

Some friendly advice though....I know this is new to you, and I can tell it worries you to read about that kind of dynamic. The reason a lot of people don't talk about how to get out is because most people don't want out, or if they do, there is an agreed upon exit strategy within their own relationship. I mean, each couple is different. My husband and I go for walks and discuss how our lifestyle is going, how we want to continue. I also write in a journal after every discipline session so he can have my input without having to constantly ask if I'm ok. If I think he was overly harsh, or if the spanking was unjustified, I write it in my journal. If he disagrees with me, we talk about it afterwards. Usually, I end up either agreeing with him or at least understanding his perspective. You and your boyfriend should really discuss how you're going to exit this lifestyle if you find it isn't to your liking. That way, if the day ever comes when you don't want to do it anymore, he will know for certain that you aren't trying to avoid a spanking. He will take you seriously and you can move on in your relationship.

[JigsawAnalogy]

I will say that W and I have put discipline on hold quite a few times. We've wound up coming back to it because it really does work better for our relationship, but it's taken a lot of work from both of us to make discipline go even a little bit smoothly, and we both know that if there comes a time when it really isn't working for either one of us, we just have to say the word and it will stop.

There is also a difference, in my opinion, between saying "no, stop, I don't waaannnnnaaa!" and using a safe word. W has checked in with me, times when I really don't *WANT* a punishment, and asked, "Are you using a safe word?" and if I am, I have the space to stop the punishment, or put it on hold. If I'm not, then I have to go through with it, with no weaseling.

I think if you read through posts on this forum, you'll see people who took breaks from discipline, or found ways to work through problems when something isn't working for one person or another in the relationship.

The major thing I suggest is communication. Everyone in the relationship is equal, and has an equal right and responsibility to communicate about how things are working for them. I am incredibly distrustful of tops who are unwilling to listen to feedback, and I think it's unrealistic for bottoms to believe their tops will just know what they need, and how something is affecting them, without plenty of communication.

[lana]

In the end, DD is consensual or it is domestic abuse. I agree there has to be an exit strategy where the hoh knows that the SO really means no more DD. I am almost always yelling "No more! " but my hoh knows to ignore that. But if I really needed a punishment to end for any emergency reason i would say our safeword "redlight" and he knows that means really stop.
Ive never used this with my hoh but did with my exbf a few times when I had concerns and we needed to stop and regroup. One time we stopped DD altogether until we came to a new agreement.

lana

[juliet]

thanks to both of you! Of course, I do not know how things were really going. Nobody knows, a part from the couple. But such a strong resistance, should at least cast a doubt shouldn't it? None of them, neither her HoH, nor the so-called-expert had ever considered it as a possible cause for that. None of them asked the so reasonable questions you put in your posts. And you had no further clues than the ones they could have!!!!!!!!! they didn't go much in depth, because - I am afraid - they were trapped into the taboo_of_the_perfect_unbreakable_relationship.
If it was just their own fault, ok, who cares? Fools and odd people walk everywhere on earth.

But how comes that I can find tons of web sources on paddles or belts, or thousands of sites instructing in very detailed manner on how to spank, even if these are subjects of minor importance, after all - arent' they? - and nothing on such a deep, sensitive, crucial matters as the liability of consent and authority when things go wrong?
why plenty of wise advice on to set bondaries and agree rules, but no advice or warns on the fact that denying your consent in some situations (paradoxically alternating fear and wish) can require some previously agreed strategy and caution?

I am so sorry of bothering you, I know that in real life things often adjust smoothly than teoretically... but I am not still peaceful

By the way: I would have asked to my HoH for his interpretation, but he has some objective troubles in communicating and disclosing what he thinks or feels. Not with me on in this relation, but as a general attitute. From time to time I wonder if he has become an alpha man, just in order to avoid coping with other human beings. But it's another story...

[Eayore]

Would you be willing to tell me which blog you are referring to? I agree we can never really know the full story, but on the basis of what you describe, this exchange does not seem to be giving good advice to anyone.

In my opinion, an awful lot of stuff that is written about DD is simply made up. People sometimes seem to describe their fantasy as if it is real life.

[lana]

[artlover]

My wife and I are not doing ttwd now. I hope we come back to it, I think it fills a need in our relationship, and benefits both of us. But ultimately, if both partners don't agree, it stops.

[Desperate4Discipline]

Juliet,

I agree with what's been said already. My husband and I have a safe word. I haven't had to use it but I know it would stop everything immediately until we could fix whatever problem existed. Reading your description of that blog really turned my stomach and I think you're not going to feel better unless you know this woman is okay. Which is perfectly understandable.

[Desperate4Discipline]

I don't know how I stumbled across this, but I thought it fit here.

http://manual.thisthingwedo.com/index.php?title=Consent

[W-Jigsaw'sBoss]

What was that website?

Hey, J- didn't we make up the phrase TTWD? I'm so confused.

Juliet- If you read a thing about a person who was not consenting to TTWD, then you could advise them to seek counseling. However, if you are posting one of those "My, uh... FRIEND is in this situation and..." but it's really you, I want you to understand that we're an unbiased group that will tell you the honest truth of a situation. If you or anyone else is in a relationship of ANY KIND in which you are experiencing ANYTHING without consent, you have the right to put a stop to it. You are an adult and can say whether or not you choose to continue the discipline. Once it is happening without consent, that is abuse. Plain and simple.

We should also provide resources for people who need help empowering themselves to be "safe, sane and consensual". Thoughts, other members?

[Desperate4Discipline]

W, I found that on here somewhere. I was clicking around and stumbled on it.

[JigsawAnalogy]