[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 487: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 113: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 113: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions_content.php on line 682: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4284: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3493)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4286: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3493)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4287: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3493)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4288: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3493)
This thing we do • View topic - unresolved: establishing authority

unresolved: establishing authority

SpankoNanny, WE NEED YOUR HELP!

Here's a section for those questions about discipline. In this case, we're *all* able to stand in for SpankoNanny, and we are all free to ask questions. Got a problem in your household? Check in to see what our good friend (but our firm, strict, caring friend) SpankoNanny has to say.

unresolved: establishing authority

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:55 am

W asked me to post about this, although I admit that I can't remember all of the specifics of what she wanted me to say. So I will go with my best memory, and add some things from my own perspective, and we'll see where that gets us.

We have been struggling for a while with W establishing her authority. I am frustrated. I feel like either I'm making myself follow the rules and behave--which undermines my perception of W's authority, because I feel like I'm the one in control of what happens, and whether or not we get into fights. Or else I'm breaking the rules, and causing W to respond to my behavior--that kind of topping-from-the-bottom thing, which makes me feel like I'm still the one in control of the situation.

W, on the other hand, is frustrated because she feels like she *is* establishing her authority. From her viewpoint, either I'm following the rules, or I am breaking the rules, and she is enforcing them. And then she'll get feedback from me, usually afterward, that says, "Well, but I felt like I was the one in charge of that situation." Which, frankly, undermines her confidence in her authority.

I've spent a lot of time trying to tease out what's going on for me, and I think that a lot of it is that I need W's authority to come irrespective of my behavior. Which is to say, I feel like I need her to be able to visibly demonstrate her authority even when I am not misbehaving. And that is a huge shift in the dynamics of our relationship.

For lots of reasons--our basic personalities being the core of it--the usual dynamic in our relationship is that I tend to make the decisions, and take care of household organization, and really, boss her around without thinking about it. And the problem is, I've realized that I wind up not really respecting her... if I'm not paying attention, I'll be thinking about her like one of those buffoon-ish husbands on a sit-com, and (obviously) thinking of myself as the all-knowing sit-com wife. Which, when it gets down to it, is not a great dynamic for a satisfying relationship (or for a good sit-com, for that matter).

Someone posted a snippet to the forum a while ago, from one of those HoH type sites, talking about the dynamics of that kind of relationship, and how a woman's natural need to submit, and a man's natural need to be dominant, have been thwarted by things like feminism. And that's the kind of thing that I normally dismiss out of hand, particularly since we're both women in my relationship, and that dynamic that the site attributes to gender is full blown. (Plus, if you're looking at the surface, my dear wife is about 100 times more femme than I am, which would make her the "woman who needs to submit" in that theory, and she is totally not.)

But the person who posted it suggested looking past that for some useful insight to the dynamics of our relationships, and when I did, it really did help me to get in touch with where I feel the problems are. It's not about gender. It's about personality. Heck, it might even be that I'm a frustrated submissive, and need someone to establish dominance over me.

And the more I thought about it, the more I realized that, at least in my relationship, the benefit of W establishing her authority, and both of us consciously treating her as the Head of Household is not that I need to have her be in charge of everything, and me totally submitting. It's that, as it currently stands, the dynamic is the opposite. By having W act as the HoH, we rectify that. Where it will bring us is into a more equal balance. Because, let's face it, I'm not going to become all *that* submissive. I'm a smart, capable, confident person. Plus, I'm utterly perfect and always right. (Okay, maybe not so much the last part.) If we are consciously treating W as the HoH, I will hopefully learn to treat her as someone who is as good at being in charge as I am. I will hopefully learn to consider her opinions equal to mine. And she will hopefully get some practice in standing up to me, putting her foot down, and pushing back when I unthinkingly begin to steamroll over her in the relationship.

One of the problems we've been having with this, though, is that W is not accustomed to being in charge. And, for a lot of reasons, she is uncertain in her role as an authority figure in our relationship. We both believe in a consensus-based style of decision making. Well, her more than me. I act like consensus is pretty much me convincing everyone else that I'm right. W is waaaaaay better at actual consensus than I am. We want everyone to have their say. We want everyone to feel like they are sharing control.

And then we add beliefs about parenting and discipline. We both believe that rules for children should be there for a reason--I mean, you don't let them run into the street because it's dangerous, not because you want them to submit. Rules, in our mind, should be there for a reason. Consequences should be saved for times when rules have been broken. Authority, in this sense, can be very much in the background, rather than constant and overt.

During one of our endless processing sessions, trying to figure out what's going wrong and how to fix it, W said something like, "Well, I can't just tell you to wear a dress or something like that. It would just be arbitrary!"

My immediate response, emotionally and verbally, was, "YES. You could! That would be the point of establishing your authority. Doing it just because you *can*."

But it's hard, and W isn't in the habit of looking for ways of establishing her authority arbitrarily, just because she can, just because she and I both know that even if I'm following the rules, I'm doing it to maintain control of the reins of our relationship and resist her authority.

So the reason she asked me to post--and by "asked" I actually mean "told"--is that she wants advice. She wants suggestions of different ways she can establish her authority. And it doesn't work out very well for us, if I'm the one giving her the suggestions. Particularly because, being as consensus-oriented as she is, she then wants to ask my opinion about the smallest mechanics of any particular suggestion I've offered.

I am stating here for the record--and much as I dislike it, dear readers, you can feel free to remind me that I've made this promise--that I am consenting to W making decisions without my input. I trust her, deeply and absolutely, to hear me and respond appropriately if I tell her that something is dangerous or not safe for me to do. I trust her, even, to listen if I honestly believe something she's asked is unfair. But I am right now giving her the authority to steamroll over me, whether it's for my own good, or just because she can.


Also, in the interest of getting the discussion off to a good start, and getting people thinking of ideas that play to W's strengths, I will now describe an incident in which she quickly, easily, and directly established her authority.

Several weeks ago, we were going to the movies one night. We hadn't been talking about rules or structure, we were just going through our ordinary, daily life. I was feeling irritated by people getting in my way and annoying me (hazards of urban living!), and as we walked into the theater, I breezed through the door, letting it go so that it closed in W's face.

She caught up to me halfway across the lobby, rested her hand on my arm, and said quietly, firmly, "Let's try that again."

I had no idea what she meant. She explained, and my initial reaction was, "That's STUPID. Why go back outside? You're in now. Sorry I didn't hold the door for you. Oh well. Next time." (I didn't say all of that, but I know I said some of it.)

She continued to be firm: "No. We are going back outside, and you will do that again, properly."

I was caught thoroughly off-guard. Was she serious?!?! I had to walk back outside, for the sole purpose of opening the door again? Yes, she was serious. And she made me do it.

And, honestly, that was the point where I started thinking really hard about how often I am not respectful to W, in all of those little ways. How often I get caught up in my own life, and don't take the time for basic courtesy and respect. How I take for granted that she knows I love her and respect her, that she matters to me, and that I want her to be happy. And so, in little day-to-day ways, I treat her badly. And she doesn't do that to me. She is courteous, respectful, and remembers me in the midst of her own busy and challenging life.

So I'm asking for suggestions of ways that she can demonstrate her authority to me, and enforce it strongly until I'm able to be as respectful of her as she is of me. Knowing myself, that's not going to be easy. But I think it will be worthwhile.
User avatar
JigsawAnalogy
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:44 am
Location: New York
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Homeatlast » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:49 pm

JA I really like this post!

I have said to you before that I see IC and my relationship in a lot of what you say about you and W and this post could have been about us! One of the reasons we started DD was because I was doing pretty much exactly what you are doing - even down to the crumbs thing and the bumbling husband analogy. Weird to see someone else writing about 'me'.

What happened over time is that IC lost more and more confidence and then just completely allowed me to streamroller her and make all decisions. She was geting more angry and frustrated with me but wasn't expressing it and I was getting mad at her for not contributing more and asking me what to do in every situation.

After I became ill I realised what I had been doing and how it affected us. We decided it wasn't exactly my fault as it was learned behaviour which I had needed to survive but now I needed to unlearn and start giving IC the respect she deserved and trusting that she could take care of me and anything else.

This is still very much a work in progress but the difference in our relationship has been huge already. We still have asspects off DD that are in their infancy and cause a lot of problems - mainly for me - needing more from her. What has changed is that I now trust her a lot more which has come from just letting her get on with things and keeping my mouth SHUT (I get more spankings for not doing this than anything else!)

IC suddenly has a lot more confidence and doesn't ask my opinion for everylittle thing. That doesn't mean that we still don't have discussions about things or that she doesn't take my opinion into consideration but it is understood by both of us that she is the HOH. She is now thriving on that and I am WAY more relaxed. Yes I stillnag about crumbs and mess and allthe other 'blokey'type stuff that she does but if my mouth runs away with me or I am disrespectful my butt pays the price. (The main issue is that the price isn't as high as it should be but IC is working up to that!)

There are still days when I say things that I shouldn't and IC doesn't pick up on them. As we are only months into this I sometimes catch myself and will point it out to her and say 'Do you thinkI should get away with that?' This is me still trying to control which is not what I want but it is frustrating when she isn't as Toppy as I need her to be. (but hey she is not perfect *cough*)

The biggest EA was us acknowledging out loud together that she is HOH and that I accept that. Sometimes I don't feel like she is doing anything to show me she is in charge and I have to remind myself of it which is a pain but at the core of this I am still an adult and have to have some self control.

Other times I will be nagging away in the kitchen about dishes etc and she will just come in behind me and swat my butt, tell me to be quiet and that we will discuss it later (we all know whaat discuss means in this context) That immediately reminds me of her status and the respect due.

I am learning that just because she does things differently than I would do them - it is OK. C's socks may not match her skirt or the kitchen maybe not as sparkly as I like it but the world doesn't end. IC doesn't constantly feel criticised and I realised that actually she is better than me at loads of stuff!

She has always and continues to put her family first which makes her a perfect HOH. She usually knows what is best for me - more than I do in fact. Making decisions for me and telling me what to do is a real EA for me. Even with small stuff like telling me to drink more water, take my meds, sleep, go or not go somewhere.

Punishing is a big one that we are still working on as I said earlier. Sometimes she doesn't follow through, isn't hard enough, makes excuses for me etc. All of which is really unhelpful in EA.

We have a weekly review which is a two way discussion but she leads and makes decisions during. Again this is a small way of acknowledging that she is in charge.

Asking her permission for stuff. Even small things, in a respectful manner. This is a joint decision. I often ask permission even when she hasn't stipulated it.It shows my respect and in her reply she shows that she acknowledges that it is her role to decide some stuff for me.

Sorry this is becoming a huge post and I have no idea if it is answering your question. I think what I am trying to say is that for us EA is a two way thing. It is not just what IC can do to establish EA but what we both agree our roles are and both behaving appropriately rather than having IC beat me into submission. When I don't behave appropriately then IC may punish me if she chooses.

She may also choose to spank me or whatever 'just because' but she doesn't do that very often. She has started to ask me to do more things for her than she ever did before and I try and do them without arguing or questionning but again if I don't respond correctly there are consequences.

Does this make any sense at all? I'm just going to shut up now and push the button.
User avatar
Homeatlast
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:22 am
Location: North west England
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Sara'sGirl(SG) » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:57 pm

Wow! Great post, J. I have lots of thoughts, that I think I may need to sorta come back and forth for.

First off, I guess I want to make sure that W IS on board with this. Because, (and I'm gonna be frank here, and assume you know that I care a lot about you, even if I don't speak sweetly :P) you don't have the right to "steamroll" her into being more authoritative either. Whether it's for her own good, or the good of you, or the good of your relationship. You ALWAYS have a good reason for doing it, don't you? I'm definitely not saying you ARE steamrolling her, more that as a disclaimer before I offer suggestions, I want to clarify that I only think this will (or should/can) work if she is actually willing to take ARBITRARY authority over you--if she is willing to exert her authority even when you are behaving like an angel.

Bah, I'm at work, and will have to go back and forth. So I will either edit this post or double post or something. That's my first thought, and suggestions are forthcoming (unless I've offended you, J, and you're just wanting me to shut up, now). :nanana:
Nic

Sing 'til you're breaking glass
or you're breaking down

~Idina Menzel

User avatar
Sara'sGirl(SG)
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:58 pm
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Disobedient Girl » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:46 pm

I'd like to reply to this but, on balance, think I am too tired and preoccupied to do it (and you) justice. I do, however, want you to know I've read the post a few times and am thinking about it. (I did attempt a mini-reply earlier in the day but I am so clumsy with the quote bar thing (its partially this lap top, I'm better on the big computer with the clunky mouse)).

The following anecdote does not consititute a response to your situation but it does relate to establishing authority so here goes: as you know all busy here right now. I don't normally drink but her family are having French Champagne ( I know its all from France but this stuff was bought there with no English words on the label). Last night I had some. Tonight I expected some. Her sister said 'where's L's?' and Dadi replied I haven't poured her one. I couldn't quite say 'I accept your decision Sir', but I struggled to give a smile that came to the same. And it was very hard. I felt a lot of things including sheer humiliation, but I understood it was Dadi's way of making me feel controlled in a hectic and public situation. I didn't like it, but I do understand that I have given up that sort of control, which means not just the idea of it but the reality. I could put Dadi down and say how that made me feel in all sorts of undermining ways and it'd be effective because we know each other well, but I won't, because I love to be dominated and I know in another situation in our futures together my submission and the confidence it gives her will pay dividends for me and my pleasure .... hope this makes some sense .... and I reiterate it is not my response, just what happened to me tonight.


Good night all, I need to go back in the main room and offer nightcaps etc. (Might be a good time to repeat this board has come to mean a lot to me.)
User avatar
Disobedient Girl
Rank 4
Rank 4
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:58 pm
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Sara'sGirl(SG) » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:00 pm

Okay, so my first suggestion here, W, is put JA to the test. She says she's submitted to your authority? We'll see. She certainly tests your authority enough. Time to test her submission. And by test, I don't really mean, see if she'll follow through meekly. I mean, more, have the attitude that you're going to stretch her a bit in this area, and she will do what you say, when you say it, just BECAUSE. Because she said she would submit to you, and you're going to push that a bit.

Suggestions for Establishing Authority:
--The skirt, regularly when you come home. Underwear need not apply.
--There's a reason for the skirt--it makes her backside more accessible. If you don't like her tone, if you think she should have apologized properly before leaving chat to go make dinner, 30 seconds to bend her over, smack her backside, and THEN send her on her way can make a remarkable difference
--She doesn't get to argue
--If she thinks you AREN'T establishing authority, she's welcome to write that in her journal for you to read. Discussion in the moment (outside of something that will harm/trigger her) is not welcome
--You don't have to be fair. You being in charge means sometimes, you'll interpret things differently than her. That's what it means that *W* is in charge, not J. She may not think she was being cheeky. She may not have meant to break a rule. She may have misunderstood your instructions--you are not required to withhold punishment in any of these scenarios. And if she's arguing the point with you, her attitude already needs adjustment.
--Keep asking her nicely to get dinner going. I like that.
--Spank her randomly. With your hand, with a wooden spoon, with the cane, with the loopy thing. 10 swats, 50 swats, for no reason. Tell her it's for no reason, except that you CAN. If she gets mouthy, double it. You have the right to spank her. See her above post.
--Have her sit at your feet while you are on FB, etc. Reach down to "pet" her from time to time, and ask her to bring you things such as water, snacks
--Make random choices for her. "Suggest" that she have water with dinner, instead of her beverage of choice.
--Surprise her with a room inspection. She can stand silently by her bed while you explore. You can decide which of the messes should be clean the next day (great time to get laundry done)

--Make a list of things J does that annoy you. Begin to limit those things, starting now. :)

I gave these ideas more firmly than I otherwise might simply to suggest the tone with which they might be done. Obviously, if any of them are triggering, pass them up. And if you have specific questions about any of them, feel free to bug me. I think I'll have more ideas later, as well. :)
Nic

Sing 'til you're breaking glass
or you're breaking down

~Idina Menzel

User avatar
Sara'sGirl(SG)
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:58 pm
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Homeatlast » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:18 pm

:yeahthat:

Clearly my ramble above actually meant what clever clogs Nic said. Please ignore irrelevant post.

Good stuff Nic. May show this to IC!

Also DG, liked your example. GD seems to have this stuff sorted. maybe she could draft a 'How To' for new Tops!
User avatar
Homeatlast
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:22 am
Location: North west England
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Homeatlast » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:20 pm

Not suggesting for a single moment that the rest of you Blues are in any way deficient !!!!!!!

Just saying............
User avatar
Homeatlast
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:22 am
Location: North west England
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby W-Jigsaw'sBoss » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:28 pm

I love you guys.

This is ALL useful and positive and helpful to me. Thank you.

Nick- what you said about JA sounding like someone's writing YOU- I feel that way about a lot of youse.

Nic- Wow. I love the idea of writing a list of the things that annoy me!!!! It feels really empowering. That's the general idea, I think! :rubhands: I have a lot to think about!

JA is babysitting. When she gets home she's going to change into her skirt and have some corner time. Then she will eat dinner and then we will see what happens!!!

It's too bad that the button to publish is "submit" for us blues. I don't HAVE to!


"I am loving, firm and flexible. Kind of like Lexan."
:cheesy:
User avatar
W-Jigsaw'sBoss
Cheesy Goodness
Cheesy Goodness
 
Posts: 994
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:22 am
Location: New Yawk!
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Sara'sGirl(SG) » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:15 pm

Yay! I'm glad it's feeling helpful for you, W.

It's definitely all about empowerment, and I have to say, I love the enthusiasm and FUN you bring to ttwd.

I almost feel like I should apologize to J. Almost.
Nic

Sing 'til you're breaking glass
or you're breaking down

~Idina Menzel

User avatar
Sara'sGirl(SG)
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:58 pm
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:45 am

User avatar
JigsawAnalogy
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:44 am
Location: New York
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Sara'sGirl(SG) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:13 am

:leafpile: :elephant: :piano: :penguin: :snoopy: :coffee2: :cow:

What? It feels like a party! I just, I'm really impressed with both you and W. Like I said somewhere else, I can tell you are digging deep, and you're willingness to look inside of yourself and allow US to do a bit of the same (and even poke a little) just really impresses me. And W, your willingness to step outside of what is comfortable for you to give to J inspires me to be a better wife as well.

On that sappy note, I have more ideas. BTW, I'm really one who thinks WHILE writing/talking, so one should not assume I've thought these through and I'm presenting the cream of my crop. One would do better to assume that I am a brainstormer at heart, and will just throw out ideas as they come to me for you to peruse and choose from:

--Make a small but noticeable for every cigarette J smokes--not to make her stop, but simply b/c it's something she does that you don't like. So for every cigarette she smokes she should make tally mark on a paper and have to spend 1 minute doing something YOU like--back rub, sitting at your feet, playing FB games with you, OR gets 1 stroke with the cane or something. Not a punishment, just make her pay a "fee" for every cigarette. Why? Because you can, and it will make her feel like you are in charge of EVERY aspect of her life.

--Sexual submission--no desire to make anyone blush, and not completely sure what this looks like for you all. Orgasm restriction comes to mind most readily as a common option, but feel free to be creative.

--If I remember correctly, J feels your authority if she is made to do something slightly humiliating--we're not talking total degradation here, and this can be tricky. I'd require a list from her of things that would fall into this category and be acceptable (read: nonharmful, which is the only real "acceptability" she gets input on at this point). To add to that, I'd require her to post that list here.

Hmm, I'm feeling a little out of idea at the moment, and a little disappointed in myself. But I find this a very interesting thread, and I know I'll be back! :D
Nic

Sing 'til you're breaking glass
or you're breaking down

~Idina Menzel

User avatar
Sara'sGirl(SG)
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:58 pm
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:40 am

User avatar
JigsawAnalogy
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:44 am
Location: New York
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby mijita » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:11 pm

(This is a copy of my comments left on the PB post)

I've been thinking about your writings on this (both here and on the forum) for the last couple of days, trying to absorb everything everyone else is saying and figure out what I think. Do keep my tendency to read closely into language (occupational hazard) in mind when you read this.

For me, I think part of the problem could be the way this is being framed. You both are seeing W as needing to establish her authority over you as though it is something she's having to wrest from you rather than something you've freely given her and that she therefore has. At the same time, she's presenting herself, and you see her as "reluctant" -- doing this only because you want / need her to as though it gives her no pleasure or satisfaction. The term "reluctant" makes me think of someone being dragged along, an idea that would really sting me if Paul played into it. My thought is that neither of these circumstances are likely to instill either of you with confidence.

For me, it's been hugely liberating to know that Paul, however he may have come into disciplining and punishing me, is into it -- likes doing it, likes the feeling it gives him in his own right -- apart from whatever good it may do for me. At the same time, it's important to him to know that I trust and believe in him and won't try and undermine his confidence -- that how we do this is his choice.

I think you both need to convince each other of these things -- that you're ready to give control, JA and that W is excited and happy to be in charge of the areas she wants to be (and that you're comfortable with her having).

My advice to W, since she's asking, is to choose a couple (no more than five) of your behaviors that matter to her and she wants changed, make sure she has your buy in, and focus on those. Her attitude (in my opinion) should be outcome oriented -- that is to say, whether you're holding the door for her because you believe she has the authority over you or because you're "making yourself" do it, for her, the fact you're holding the door open for her is a demonstration of her control over your behavior.

The "arbitrary rule" thing probably will only work on your side. That is, the rules may seem petty and arbitrary to you. This doesn't matter so long as you've agreed to follow them -- once you have, you opt out should only be done as an emergency because the rules W makes should have meaning to her, be things she wants you to do or not do and she should trust that once you've agreed to them you're going to try and follow them. (More thoughts on the fairness thing coming in an entry by me, whenever I get around to it unless someone else does first.)

Meanwhile you tell yourself that you're holding the door for W because she wants you to and has told you to do so. If a little voice tells you you're doing it because you've decided to, remind yourself that you've decided to BECAUSE W wants it and you're submitting to that request / demand. That's the arching reason, whatever undermining self-talk you're giving. Sometimes, when I'm thinking "maybe I'm just going through the motions," I'll do what I'm supposed to, but then ask Paul what might (because it could be different another time) have happened if I hadn't just to remind myself that the limits are there and he's enforcing them. This is a huge turn on for me, remembering and being reminded when I've been good that had I not been I would have been punished. It's at this point that sexual play mixes in with the discipline and punish dynamic.

Anyway, hope you find something useful in these thoughts.

hugs,

Mija
User avatar
mijita
Rank 1
Rank 1
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 2:04 am
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Disobedient Girl » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:34 pm

I like to ask 'what if I hadn't ...?' or 'if I ... what will happen?'. When there is time to ask and be told over and over it's soothing, like a familiar story. I like the security of it (an example might be 'tell me rules for being in the corner again'). And if time is not an issue Dadi has a lot of patience for this sort of thing. And pleasure apart it is useful in so far as I don't have to disobey to check the boundary is there.

The word 'boundary' is (as the poet says) like a bell, and reminds me that I am sailing into the wind posting this so late at night, regardless of it being the first chance I've had to be online all day. Her family are here for two more nights and I have already two consequences to face (one for improper underwear - no knickers in this case; Dadi sees this as sloppy practice, and another for taking advantage of the general situtation to be excessively cheeky). I haven't seen the notebook and don't know what is listed as punishment so caution would be sensible (JA - could you make it so my posts don't display the time of night???)
User avatar
Disobedient Girl
Rank 4
Rank 4
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:58 pm
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Re: unresolved: establishing authority

Postby Sara'sGirl(SG) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:33 pm

dg, I'm really glad that you've been coming on, even though it's been so busy for you! If dadi is willing to consider mitigating circumstances, maybe the fact that we've ENJOYED you being here could...weigh in your favor?

also, I show that you posted at 6:34pm--my guess is that it shows the time for whatever time zone you are in, so if you just went to the user control panel and changed your time zone, it would show a different time...of course, my guess is that you are FAR too well behaved for that. :)

I'm glad dadi's been keeping track of you, even with company over. I always find it a little stressful if that keeps us from ttwd too much, or if I feel like S doesn't have me in hand.
Nic

Sing 'til you're breaking glass
or you're breaking down

~Idina Menzel

User avatar
Sara'sGirl(SG)
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:58 pm
spam_b:
How did you find the board?:

Next

Return to WWJD? (What would (Nanny) Jo Do?)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron