when your hoh does wrong

[timsbrat]

Hi, I was hoping some one could help me with the topic of how to act when my hoh just plain ticks me off. Where still pretty new to dd and my mouth is over riding my brain





timsbrat

[timsbrat]

i hope i didnt offend anyone by my question. Im very sorry if thays the case.

[Homeatlast]

Lol. I haven't figured that one out yet. We have been doing this for about 8 months and together for over 15 years. My mouth still gets me into way more trouble than my actions. So sorry can't help. My best advice - just learn to love a sore behind!

[Eayore]

Hi there, timsbrat.

No, I can't tell you how to act! I can only tell you the ways I act when this happens here.

Firstly, I think I put a lot of energy into controlling my behaviour so I don't show I am ticked off. This (a) doesn't really work because I 'leak' unhappiness in my body language, etc. and (b) can be pretty exhausting for me.

Secondly, if it goes on for a while, I decide to speak up about what is troubling me. In my head, this is all to be done in a very reasonable, polite and nice fashion. Then I usually try to put it into action. However, at this point my plan tends to come off the rails. I suspect this is because I become hyper-sensitive to any resistance to what I am saying, or the slightest hint that it might not be the best time to say it just now. This is when I start to rant, and I may well feel the need to mention other things which have ticked me off, and which I had been bottling up.

If I am very lucky, my partner can see what is going on, rises above all this, and just punishes me for being disrespectful. Sadly, the more usual outcome is that we end up having an argument.

So what I am concluding to myself is that I should stop trying to bottle up my feelings, but also accept that it is OK if I complain and my complaint gets rejected or ignored. I don't have to escalate it immediately, the moment that happens.

[JigsawAnalogy]

w and i believe firmly that just because i've asked her to be in charge doesn't mean she is perfect. that was one of the bedrock parts of our agreement--we spent months of me learning she isn't perfect, and that it's not reasonable for me to expect that from her.

so in our case... it's mostly a matter of the following:

1, we're in therapy together. this gives us a chance every week to talk things out with someone who can help us to understand each other better.

2, we write to each other. some things are better expressed when we're apart, and are able to have a little distance and work through things before we share what we've said.

3, we've learned that arguments happen. they're done with love and respect, but also tolerating the fact that we do get angry with each other. we will sometimes say things we regret, and part of being in a healthy relationship is learning to forgive each other for mistakes, and learning to find ways to avoid that problem in the future.

4, we spend time thinking about what was really at the bottom of a disagreement. w and i used to get into raging fights over her coming home later than she'd said. we had an ongoing miscommunication about what the problem was. as i remember it, she would be feeling guilty for going out without me, so she would say she'd get home earlier than was actually reasonable. and then she'd feel resentful about it, and delay when she got home, without really checking in with me. by the time she got home, i'd be upset because she was home several hours later than she'd said, and i was worried or just stressed from the uncertainty. but i realized it wasn't her going out that made me upset, it was her coming home later than planned. well, that, and the fact that she'd respond defensively when i said i was upset that she was home later than planned.

but once we were able to pick apart what was happening, we solved it easily--all she had to do was accept that when i said "yes, i don't mind if you go out with your friends after work" that i meant that. and i requested that she just tell me she would be getting home *later* than she expected to be home. i made it clear that if she said she'd be home by midnight but came home at 11, that was better than saying she'd be home by 9 and coming home at 11.

i guess there's a lot of thinking and processing and talking and stuff involved in this. and it takes building up trust--it's taken me and w eight years to get to a point where we're able to deal with things going wrong as smoothly as we do. and it's not like it's all sweetness and light. it's just that problems that used to fester for months now get taken care of pretty quickly, one way or another.

we've got daily checklists, weekly checklists, and frequent check-ins with each other. these are ostensibly part of our discipline routine--they're mandatory for both of us--but it's really just a tool we use to make our relationship stronger. even though part of what we talk about is our disciplinary stuff, we also check in about things we've done or felt during the day, or things we meant to mention to each other, and things going on in our lives.

i guess with us, there's just a basic acceptance that i'm gonna say stupid things (for all that neither of us is perfect, "attitude" is much more a problem i have than one w does, and she rarely says things that are unacceptable or outright rude; the punishment for that is consistent, and i am definitely improving, largely because i hate the taste of soap!)

[timsbrat]

Thanks for al the advice.I realt dont think that T is or should have to be perfect in any way, lord knows Im not. I was just looking for a positive way to express my feelings about the situation. Would not like a repeat performance of last night . I guess Il try realy hard to just keep telling myself be calm and lose the adittude.

Thanks again

Timsbrat

[Disobedient Girl]

With some success I have written down how I feel for my top to read later, often when she is alone, which lets her understand but doesn't undermine her authority. Would this work for you?

[timsbrat]

I will definitly give it a try, I just have to keep my mouth from going into over drive. Thanks for the advice.




timsbrat

[juliet]

Hi Guys. I've been practicing DD for 6 months, and my HoH live together since 1 y, so I still feel terribly unsecure on lots of things. We agreed in our rules that I can't argue o speack back to him, it's a major infraction. Anyway, from time to time he himself has a disrespectful attitute towards me, as he seems to be annoyed if I can't understand something immediately, or if I take time to answer to him, he makes bad comments on my dresses or shoes, and from time to time he's very abrupt, or sarcastic to me.

He's very dominant by nature, and gets nervous very easily. But when he's with other people, he makes some kind of effort to hide it, when he's with me he seems not to care.
I feel chated, its' a bad thing to say, but it seems like he has been unfair with me.
Yeah, I accepted his authority, yes, I accepted his rules, yes, I must be respectful to him, otherwise I get a punishment but why he can be so disrespectful to me and I have no chance to ask for better behaviour? He's not because he's my HoH and not because I acknowledge his authority that he has to treat me like a doormat, putting a kind of gag on my mouth to be free to abuse me verbally.

I know that maybe it's I kind of thing I should accept without complaints as a part of my "submissive" role, but I cannot recoincile to that, I feel so bad.
What to do?
thanks julie

[Meg]

Hi juliet,

One of the things that Obsidian and I have done is to give me the opportunity to make appointments if I need to discuss something with her of a more serious nature, giving her a *brief* idea of what the subject will be. We have also instituted a procedure where I can ask permission to "speak freely," if there is something important I need to say that I need room to speak outside of our general rules or strictures without penalty.

This situation is something I would (and have) used this for. I *definitely* think that this is something the two of you need to talk about, and if you can find a way to set aside time to talk with him about it...it would be good. MUCH better to do this than get to the end of your rope, and get into a big fight....in which, punishment becomes QUITE justified

Not that I know *anything* about that.

As I am going home to my detention for...my ummm...well, blow up over a similar thing, in which I did not employ the procedures we have in place.

[JigsawAnalogy]

With me and W, it's more relaxed than that. If I feel like she has been disrespectful towards me, I generally take a bit of time to cool down if I'm angry, and then I tell her in a respectful way--something like, "That hurt my feelings," or "That felt disrespectful towards me."

I admit that I would be *very* uncomfortable with a rule that said I couldn't argue or speak back, unless those things were very clearly defined, and still allowed me the space to be the person that I am (more respectful and with better manners, but still having strong opinions and so forth). Our general rule is that I need to be respectful, but I didn't check my brains or personality at the door when we started with discipline.

In your position, I might ask to put discipline on hold until the two of us had worked out the issues so that we both felt respected and safe in the relationship. I know that won't work for everyone, and there are couples where it doesn't work to put discipline on hold, but that's how I would probably approach the situation.

[lana]

I think that mutual trust and mutual respect are the bedrocks of a DD relationship or really any marriage/relationship.
If I was ever being verbally criticized and disrespected by my hoh to the point where i felt hurt , I would ask for a certain time to have open communication where anything can be said with no fear of punishment. (As long as you say it w/o swearing, disrespect etc.) If this was denied, the DD would be put on hold.

(In other words, Im saying pretty much what i think JA said, only maybe a little stronger. )
Being a sub does not mean you allow yourself to be verbally abused.

lana

[Meg]

[lana]

[Eayore]

Hi, juliet. I know this is a non-judgmental forum, but I hope you won't mind if I say I do not feel comfortable about some of the things you describe.

I agree with the previous comments that a DD relationship needs to be built on mutual respect. If your partner is being sarcastic to you, making bad comments about your dress or shoes, and generally giving you the impression that he intends to treat you like a doormat, then my feeling is he is not showing you much respect (at least, during these moments).

The rule about not arguing back may be a very good one, but I believe it should apply "in the moment", and not be a permanent rule against your ever voicing your concerns.

I would definitely recommend you speak to him on an equal-to-equal basis about this. This doesn't have to be immediately when he does one of these things; it could be at a pre-set time when you agree to suspend the rules for a while so that you can speak honestly. Maybe he does not realise fully what he is doing - in which case, it may be helpful if you point it out to him and let him know how you feel. But if he does realise that he is being disrespectful, and actually wants that to be a part of your DD relationship, then I think you need to know that -- and to decide whether you accept it or not. Personally, I don't think you should accept it, but in the end that is up to you.