Taking a punishment

Whether we call it "domestic discipline" or "rules" or "structure" or just "getting our needs met." This is a spot for those meta discussions about what it is that we do.

Taking a punishment

Postby Ice-cream » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:26 am

I have a difficult time submitting to a spanking when the time comes and I'd really appreciate any tips or insights.

In our relationship I'm the one with the need for discipline. My husband sees his role primarily as giving me pleasure, so if discipline is something I want and enjoy he is willing to provide it. We started exploring spanking in the bedroom as a purely sexual experience. Lately we've been exploring discipline, and both appreciating the results. Recently he has been getting stricter with me which is wonderful.

As much as I think I'd like to be strictly controlled and punished, I appreciate and admire my husband for applying the brakes when he thinks it appropriate. He doesn't seem to have an innate desire to hurt me ( though he loves caning me hard) so when I'm balking at a punishment there is a conflict for him.


I've had desires for discipline since I was a child, but it has always been a hidden and shameful thing. I used to be fascinated at stories of marital abuse and I would fantasise about being in such a relationship, and resisting and escaping. That was all before discovering the Internet of course and unpicking the strands of this part of my psychology. One of the hardest things for me was learning to honestly own these feelings and admit to liking and enjoying discipline. In my fantasies I'd like to be controlled and punished so that I could resent the unfairness of it all and feel properly sorry for myself lol.

Submission in real life has been a bit different. I've had to bow to his decisions to stop when he decided I'd had enough, and learn to respect his principles about his behaviours towards me. It's not the stuff of erotic fiction, but it has caused me to look deeply at my ideas of submission and obedience, and learn a lot about myself in the process.

So to cut a long story short: if I don't learn to submit to punishment I risk losing this wonderful opportunity to live this kind of discipline.

When I express fear beforehand he tends to be more gentle with me- I get spanked, the agreed number of strokes, but not as hard as he might have given them.
Sometimes, during a spanking, I get angry ( furiously enraged) and he refuses point blank to continue then.

I've asked him to spank me past the anger but he refuses. And I have to admit that it is far more punishing for me to have him withdraw from me. I hate that sense of disconnection and it makes me all the more anxious to learn to submit gracefully.

I'm struck by the irony that at the point where I am surrendering control and being punished, I need to marshall my self control. Hmmmm.

I think the key is my attitude. When I bend over feeling guilty and repentant, I seem to be able to endure more. But I can't always summon that mindset at will. Fear can be stronger. Or the shock of the pain can trigger an almost primal rage.

I know it is possible to control myself. When the children might overhear I never shout out, though I was unaware of that! On our own, I'm noisy. but whether that is evidence of self control is debatable. I think it's more evidence of my primal instincts taking over- this time a maternal instinct to protect the little ones.
EI
And for the sake of safety, I need to learn to hold still. But it is so hard to keep my body still when every fibre of my being is trying to escape.

Sorry for the long post. I'd love to hear any thoughts or tips.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby splorange » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:21 am

Hi Ice-cream

i think a lot of what you're describing is very common. I'm one of the other bottoms with a reluctant top here (there are a number of others) and what we want is very often at odds with what we feel we need. It's very tricky because you have to hold yourself rigidly to your standards and at an emotional time like during punishment it's very difficult to do that! I don't tend to react with anger to punishment but I do often get scared right before it happens and have to force myself not to ask to opt out - because I'm sure my boyfriend would never force it.

Here's an idea - for a little while could you try writing down a few very specific rules and specific punishments for breaking them? And then give your husband blanket permission to give you the exact punishment specified in the event of an infraction. In a neutral situation that's not heated or coloured by anger or stress, you shouldn't find that hard, and then when the time comes your husband will KNOW that you are okay with this punishment, even if you're fighting it now. And then talk about it afterwards. Jigsaw Analogy and W have a brilliant system of writing about their feelings before and after a spanking, which I imagine is also very helpful in getting to know yourself and each other better.

Good luck!
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby lana » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:18 pm

Hi Ice Cream
I think the problem may be that you havent reached the right mindset because your hoh, being new, may not know how to help you get there. I know I get angry sometimes if my hoh starts whaling away with no preamble or preparation. I always bend over for it but the whole thing works out better if there is a ritual of preparation first. I think most women and men into DD would agree with this.

Some of the ritual for me is a short corner time before the punishment starts where I am more or less made to contemplate what i did wrong and to to see his pov. For me part of this is i have to pull down my pants and put my hands on my head or crossed behind my back and im not to have any distractions like ipod or crossword puzzles. This lasts about 5 or 10 minutes. I can hear him preparing but not see what he's doing since not allowed to turn around. This is a very submissive, vulnerable position and immediately changes the dynamic (also called the mindset) before the spanking even starts.

Then before the spanking starts my hoh , who is a man of few words will ask me what this is for and i have to answer addressing him as sir. Then i have to get into the required position. During the spanking he will stop a few times to scold me or ask again what i did wrong and if im going to do it again. . If he does it this way it is much easier for me to accept the pain of the spanking I yell and plead and sometimes cry but since there no one around out here in the country, it makes no difference. When he doesnt count I do struggle to get free--cant help it) but when he gives me a set amount counted out I can handle it better. I always start out with submitting but have trouble staying in position and have often ended up having to have him help me by holding me.

When my hoh doesnt follow this ritual and just jumps right into it full force with no ritual or warmup, it is much harder for me to bear w/o fighting it and I am often not left with that peaceful, dreamy closeness thats the real object of the whole thing. That relaxed feeling that youve just been thru a storm and have washed up peacefully together on the shore.

Two dd sites I'd recommend is "Learning DD" and "Discipline and Love" which both have a lot of info for newbies.
Hope some of this helps.
lana :llama:


(BTW--If you are just starting, a "hard caning" that is leaving longlasting welts may be too much too soon. Ive been conditioned for a long time and I still dont get that degree of a caning. Mine produce red lines and occasional welts. but usually he does this only with wrist action, sometimes rapidly and sometimes counted out. I know of no one into DD who is caned so severely on a routine basis, and Id say its more for the people who are into bdsm ) This is JMO, but reached after reading a number of dd sites for a number of years.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby Ice-cream » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:31 pm

Thank you both for your replies!
Splorange- On other dd boards I've felt like either an oddity or a fraud. it's so nice to finally not be the only one!
I like the idea of agreeing set punishments for infractions though I think he will see that as me telling him what to do. Usually he tells me what I've got coming to me, and we discuss it. Or rather I cajole and accuse him of being unreasonable but in a lighthearted joking way that is supposed to convey that I'm ok with it. Hmmmm maybe at that point I need to bite my tongue and let him know unequivocally that I agree to the punishment. It didn't seem to matter because I got what he decided regardless of wheedling and pouting, but maybe it's a good opportunity to reinforce our roles and my consent. Thanks! Definitely food for thought!
I've taken to emailing him my thoughts the next day .... be easier if they weren't so complicated!

Lana- thanks for those websites. I will check them out. And thanks for sharing your ritual. I definitely think that there are things he could do that would help, but for the moment, I need to figure out the things that I need to do or can do. When I know I have a punishment coming, I can't seem to connect the dots in my head. It just feels completely unreal to me until the moment I bend over. I've suggested the idea of a warm up to him and I cannot see him giving me corner time. But maybe I could take a shower before hand and use it for a bit of serious thinking time.... More food for thought. Thank you.

With regard to your comment on caning, I'm a little amused because I feel like such a lightweight reading the sort of punishments other subs endure...20 of this....60 of that.....an hour of the other. I never know whether to cringe at the idea of it or laugh it off as fiction. We seldom get up to double digits!
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby LadyShriver1 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:40 pm

I agree with the others that what your feeling is both totally normal and really common, especially just starting out. And I can definitely feel you when you say that you don't want to discourage him. I found that being open about it at later times really helped him with the confidence to carry on, especially when I was angry or struggled. IU also wrote him a "love note" that basically said... When you discipline me I feel: safe, loved, more relaxed, closer to you, etc... when you hold back or stop I feel scared, stressed, disconnected. I love being held by you, even when it's over your knees."

That seemed to help a lot, because at first, he really balked when I would get mad. He did need to spank through the anger, and when he did, it was amazing. The feeling of release was really intense, and it was also effective in correcting the negative behavior. But mostly, I felt so loved, loving, and relaxed it was awesome. Even if my ass did hurt.

Can you share with him some of the sites that talk about that? If his ultimate goal is to give what you want, that might help him to a new perspective.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby LadyShriver1 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:05 pm

p.s. Both the sites that Lana mentioned are great and do contain a lot of information. However, both are heavily Christian DD sites (which sometimes infuriates me, as I don't believe God ordained this for me). Just wanted to forewarn you because I'm not sure what led you to this lifestyle. I have to look around a lot of that for me to enjoy their info, but it IS good info.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby lana » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:24 am

LadyShriver1 wrote:p.s. Both the sites that Lana mentioned are great and do contain a lot of information. However, both are heavily Christian DD sites (which sometimes infuriates me, as I don't believe God ordained this for me). Just wanted to forewarn you because I'm not sure what led you to this lifestyle. I have to look around a lot of that for me to enjoy their info, but it IS good info.


I dont know so much about the new site Learning DD , but Love and Discipline is NOT in any way a CDD forum. While its mainly made up of women and men in traditional M/F DD relationships or those who'd like to be, M/M, F/M, M/s, D/s are all represented there.* In fact one of the mods is a male sub who is in an F/M relationship. There is only one new person there who identifies herself as being in a CDD --out of dozens of contributors.

If it were a CDD site i certainly wouldnt have been in it all these yrs as I am agnostic. (And Ive never been into the notion that its a "Godgiven" role for men to punish sinful women to purify their souls.)
lana :llama:

*Theres no F/F relationships there right now; but if there were they'd be quite welcome.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby Ice-cream » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:17 am

LadyShriver: what you describe makes me so jealous. At the moment I don't feel I can safely express anger, and it cuts me off from fully experiencing other aspects of what we do. I had a small taster of the kind of release you describe. One day I was in awful form and just couldn't stop myself picking and grumbling and I asked him to spank me " out of my bad mood" which he did. It felt like getting a brain reboot.
Later that evening he listed things I was going to get punished for, including my bad attitude and I pointed out that he had already spanked me for that. He said that one was for me but this one was for him. So I guess he understands a little anyway!!

Thanks for the caution about websites. I appreciate it. I've come across one or two "experts" that I'd be leery of. A lot of the CDD ethos washes off me, but I can see how it could really get under your skin.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:26 am

One of the things W and I struggled with over the years was the fact that I wanted a space where I could resist the punishment and she'd carry on with it regardless. For us, that didn't work. For one thing, generally when I was resistant, it became clear that my subconscious was letting me know that something wasn't right--either my mind wasn't in the right space, or my health wasn't up for the punishment, or I wasn't connecting well with W (and if W and I aren't connecting well, discipline just doesn't work for us... of course, if we're not doing discipline, we don't connect as well, so it can be kind of like building an arch, and require a lot of balancing to get things to hold together properly!)

Something that helped me a lot was being able to build up slowly--to accept that W would do less than I wanted, but be stretching her own comfort zones with discipline. As time went on, we got closer and closer to where we needed to be, and I've found that it's been easier to rebuild trust and re-establish her authority as I've gotten more confident that it's going to be there.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby LadyShriver1 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:04 pm

Lana: Definitely no offense intended...when I typed the words "Love and Discipline" in google to check it out myself, it led me straight to www.christiandomesticdiscipline.com, for which those words are the head title. What is the URL on the other site? I'd love to check out a new one. And I mentioned that only because, as Ice Cream said, the so called experts on that site often back up their suggestions with things that scare the daylights out of me as a therapist. But...good info, nonetheless.

Icecream: Don't be too jealous. The times when that has happened were rare, but they were enough to encourage me to keep on going with all of this. It was a serious learning curve for us, and we are still working it through all the time. Sometimes things are going right, sometimes they aren't.

I also think it's important to consider what JA said. Are you resisting because something is off or not right about the punishment, or simply because it's natural to resist submitting when you know what's coming? I think that's an important distinction for me, becuase I've balked at punishments I knew I needed or deserved, but it has never felt the same when a punishment really wasn't right or wasn't going to be helpful. Like JA said...it's definitely a balance. But I can honestly say, and continue to reassure him, that he has never spanked me to a point of true fear or problems. That is only because on a couple of occasions I've genuiniely objected when it just wasn't right, he stopped. Later when we talked, I asked how that was any different than a few other objections I've made, and he could only say "he just knew". But I think that in and of itself helped him gain confidence that if he's really "hurting" me, he's going to know.And that has also helped me gain the confidence to submit when it IS right.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby artlover » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:30 pm

LadyShriver1 wrote:That seemed to help a lot, because at first, he really balked when I would get mad. He did need to spank through the anger, and when he did, it was amazing. The feeling of release was really intense, and it was also effective in correcting the negative behavior. But mostly, I felt so loved, loving, and relaxed it was awesome. Even if my ass did hurt.


Icecream, For what it is worth, I suggest, at a time when you two are able to discuss things, that you read to him the above, and perhaps other posts on here or places like Taken in Hand that say much the same thing. And I would remind him, or tell him if he does not know, of your own experience of the "small taste" of a similar release that you mentioned in your reply to LadyShriver. It sounds to me like he was very close to bringing you to "that place" that time, so you have good reason to think that you both have it in you.

And I would tell him you don't have unrealistic expectations, and are not looking to pressure him, but that you just want to work on it and see where it goes. Point out that while the psychology of it all may seem daunting, in practice all he has to do is keep spanking you. And that even if you put the potential for a cathartic, blissful release aside, it would still be a tremendous comfort to you to know that you could react to being disciplined in whatever way seemed natural at the time, without having to worry that he would stop what he was doing because of it.

While my wife and I have done TTWD at times, she is not really that inclined to it. I have often thought of what it would be like if she were, and pictured myself in your top's position, telling her: "Don't worry, honey. You can yell, or plead, or curse, or cry, or react however you need to, you don't have to worry that I will let it stop me from giving you the discipline you have earned, and need."

I have perhaps an overly romantic view of these things, but IMO, almost any man would find it highly erotic and affirming to produce in his wife or girlfriend the kind of feelings that LadyShriver mentions above. Of course, a man might fall prey to the great anti-erotic counter force, pressure. Hence the need to reassure him that you are not expecting him to do anything miraculous, just to keep spanking you.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby W-Jigsaw'sBoss » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:37 pm

I didn't see anyone mention safe words. They allow you to resist up to a point and they let him stand up to your resisting with confidence, knowing that you won't use a safeword unless you really need to.

By the way, don't use safewords unless you really, really need to. Surefire breakdown of trust, and your needs won't get met anyway.
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Re: Taking a punishment

Postby Ice-cream » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:21 am

I really appreciate all the replies and different points of view.
Jigsaw: thanks for sharing that. One of the issues I'm continually working on is avoiding slipping into, or being misled by DD fantasies. For instance, measuring my husband against some dominant ideal that can only safely exist in fiction and would be scary in real life, and finding him wanting instead of appreciating his truly wonderful real- world qualities, etc. It hadn't occurred to me that this issue might be a case of that. And I'm not certain it is but I'll be giving the possibility serious consideration.
Art lover: I love the sentiment- it's close to my own feelings but I can't say for certain if my husband would think it erotic, or just think I'm nuts. The gap that exists between what might be erotic to one person but not so significant to another is something I'd like to expand on... but it's a whole other post.
Jigsaws boss: wise advice indeed, though I truly cannot be trusted with a safe word! Or sensitive information of national importance. I crack and talk at the first hint of impending pain. Unfortunately for me that includes babbling confessions as well as blurting safe words.

I've tried to put some of my musings into action this week. He told me I would be punished for something and my first reaction was that it was unfair, but instead of saying so I took the opportunity to think about it. My intention had been good, even if he mistrusted my motives which was the part I considered unfair. But I realised that my actions had caused an unnecessary problem to him, and that I could have acted differently instead of thinking I knew best....Honestly I was forcing myself into a repentant mindset, almost play acting a role. I'm still a long way from any submissive ideal. But it took my focus off me, and made me think about how often and unthinkingly I disregard or disrespect him in small almost imperceptible ways. Other wives in my family and his can be know- better hen peckers and I'm guilty of complacency. I don't treat him like that. But growing up immersed in that culture and mindset of " managing" husbands has rubbed off and it shows through in small ways. I can do better. Because if I don't keep trying to do better, odds are I'll slowly slip into a role I don't want. Anyway, long story short, I found a better attitude to approach the spanking and while the physical side of things was still a challenge, it didn't feel like a huge global failure of my submission or his authority. On the contrary, he pushed me harder and very much set the pace, letting me have the breathers I needed but when he decided, not me.
Just as the multitude of points of view above suggests- this is a network of small problems rather than one big one.
Ahhh, that was a bit of a ramble!
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