Two homes, one relationship

[W-Jigsaw'sBoss]

I don't know that level 3 all the time is realistic, on a lot of levels. TTWD can help you be able to not be in control for short periods of time, but I'm of the opinion that in the end, we all must be capable of controlling ourselves.

I know this sounds judgemental, and I'm sorry for that.

I have found that many bottoms fantasize about a 24/7 discipline situation, and it is rarely practical or reproduceable. Frankly, when it is, I don't tend to believe the narrative, or it scares the crap out of me.

You, or your body at least, IS adult, and must be able to have the safety and freedom to live independently, or else, what would happen if something happened to your HoH? Suppose they were ill? Suppose you were left on your own unexpectedly, and you were not capable of taking care of yourself?

Maybe it takes years to create a balance of power, and you need to swing the most dramatically towards your HoH for it to come to balance. There was a time when I felt like I held every emotion, every meal decision in my hands. I did not like that feeling. I believe there will be times when we swing back towards that direction, although never as heavily, because I think J has come to a different place, where she realizes that I CAN be in control without deciding her every choice.

I don't know if this is making any sense, or if I'm projecting how I'm feeling about other disciplinary dynamics that make me very, very uncomfortable.

[JigsawAnalogy]

I found it totally wonderful. It reached and held that child within, and the adult, seamlessly. And then he went home..... and I couldn't hold 2, let alone 1 together. I totally fell apart. I felt I had had a glimpse of what this is all about for me only for it to be removed.

It's also possible that this feeling is temporary, and related to T leaving when this is all just starting. It takes time to feel trust, and if you're still nervous/upset/off-balance/building trust, then it can feel terrifying to leap off the edge of believing that he will come back, and that he will still be there for you when you need him in the future. It's even harder if you've been disappointed before. But that feeling is temporary, no matter how it feels. You will want this for a while, but once you feel secure, you will be able to move through different levels. What's more, in my experience, you *need* him to step it down/step back/etc. before you will be able to really build up the trust. No one can be perfect all the time, and building trust is about being able to trust that the person will do their best and that they will return.

Here are some more things to think about, focusing on my own experiences. My emotions can feel intense and permanent and true for all of me, all the time. For me, the more intense the emotion, the less likely that every single part actually feels that way. But when one part of me is having strong emotions, that part tends to only be able to see/hear/feel that emotion. So in a situation like you describe, one part who was getting what they needed from level 3 would believe that was what every single part needed, and needed all the time, and would fall apart without it. My younger parts, particularly (in my case) the teenagers, really struggle with trust. They've been hurt before, and no matter how much they want to feel better, well, they're constantly braced for being hurt. And the least possible sign sets that off.

Back in the early days of ttwd, W would say she would do discipline for as long as I needed it. This set off terror and intense mistrust for some parts, because that implied ttwd would be temporary, and they felt like they would need an intense level forever, and that W was saying she would eventually get tired of it and stop doing it. Was there a rational reason to believe that? Not really. Did I struggle with that for years? YES! Did I eventually get to a place where I didn't feel like I needed that level of ttwd? Actually, yes.

Anyhow, just a few thoughts. Trying not to ramble on too long!

[lana]

Wouldnt a part of you feel very stifled by not being able to make suggestions or disagree? No offense meant but to me Level 3 sounds more like a fantasy than a way to live in the real world . I know some people in DD have Boot Camps for temporary periods when a high level of submission and asking permission for everything is maintained. But ive never heard of this being done 24/7 over a long period of time. I have a hard time seeing how it could be sustainable. If you cant even ask for what you want , how would you communicate with each other?

Also i think that woulds be asking to much of the other partner to expect him to make all your decisions for you. It would require so much attention on his part.
Please dont take this as judgmental--I am mainly into DD and not so much D/s. For all i know, this Level 3 is common in D/s and M/s relationships and both partners enjoy it. In DD relationships , as far as i know, that degree of micromanagement ive not heard of except in the short boot camp thing i described.

lana

[artlover]

Wouldnt a part of you feel very stifled by not being able to make suggestions or disagree? No offense meant but to me Level 3 sounds more like a fantasy than a way to live in the real world .
lana

X 2. And I sure would not want that level of control, not even in the areas where I want control.

[blackbird]

Maybe it takes years to create a balance of power, and you need to swing the most dramatically towards your HoH for it to come to balance.

Thanks everyone. Just for reassurance, I have my own home, am self-employed and would never sacrifice my freedom for a fantasy. W, your sentence above stands out. I am dealing with a keen dom who nevertheless has many problems being confident of his power in the world. Our D/s relationship meets his need to find it, as it does mine to give up control. But as of now, the power balance is all out of kilter.

Its clear from the posts I have stimulated that l/d is difficult. My problem, however, is that he would like to stay with me most of the time - I probably didn't make that clear. So at the moment, I am dealing with a man who wants to be dominant - and when he is, is absolutely the thing for me - but finds it very difficult to take the space he needs to be himself - not something DH would have a problem with I think! I am constantly in the position of having to promote his freedom whilst still getting what I need as a submissive. As I write this, I know it is wholly impossible to do, and I need space from him. But that's very hard as he is the love of my life....

Thanks again for all the replies. JA, I totally get what you say. Wish I was further along with it!

B

[JigsawAnalogy]

I am constantly in the position of having to promote his freedom whilst still getting what I need as a submissive.

I have been in this position plenty of times. I still am, occasionally, but lately W has been better about getting her own needs met (thank heaven!). It's a struggle, because giving the person you love what *they* need can mean not getting what *you* need.*

Good luck. If you keep at this "emotional growth" stuff, it really does get unimaginably better.



*Or at least, not getting what you think you need... Again, I'm pretty sure I couldn't have gotten to a place where I trust W in regard to ttwd as much as I do if we *hadn't* had the painful periods where I thought I couldn't trust her to follow through, if that makes sense? I needed to learn that she could ease off and still come back when I needed her, and to for me to really learn that, well, there had to be the parts where she eased off even though I didn't want her to!

[blackbird]

I am constantly in the position of having to promote his freedom whilst still getting what I need as a submissive.

I have been in this position plenty of times. I still am, occasionally, but lately W has been better about getting her own needs met (thank heaven!). It's a struggle, because giving the person you love what *they* need can mean not getting what *you* need.*

Good luck. If you keep at this "emotional growth" stuff, it really does get unimaginably better.



*Or at least, not getting what you think you need... Again, I'm pretty sure I couldn't have gotten to a place where I trust W in regard to ttwd as much as I do if we *hadn't* had the painful periods where I thought I couldn't trust her to follow through, if that makes sense? I needed to learn that she could ease off and still come back when I needed her, and to for me to really learn that, well, there had to be the parts where she eased off even though I didn't want her to!

Makes total sense. Just in a very hard place. B

[Huney]

HOH and I have been together everyday pretty much since the day we met. But there have been a few times where one of use has had to leave town without the other. When this happens, the thing that helps more than anything for me is self affirmations that we come up with together, its pretty simple, like, "I respect my HOH and I will always obey him." or "I need to listen to him because hes in charge and I want to please him." Saying statements like that out loud to myself, especially over and over when Im upset, really help to keep me in a submissive state when hes not around, and when I'm in a submissive state I am happier and more reasonable. I dunno, just a suggestion.

Hi Huney. Haven't really corresponded with you yet but have been following your dilemmas. Hope you are ok and things are working out. I love your suggestion. It can be as simple as remembering to be submissive when we get upset, can't it? I find it REALLY hard sometimes. And a phrase to repeat will really help me. I'll think one up with T and maybe get him to record something as altbob suggests.
I'm struck by the fact that my state of affairs is unusual and difficult as no one who has responded has experienced what I'm doing. It makes me feel comforted to know that nobody here would find it easy. Last night T came up with a very concrete plan which has helped enormously but now we have to live it. I might write more about it if it works as it might be of general interest.

Anyway, Thanks again!

B

Thanks, things are going well with us now. It really is amazing how much it helps to just say those things out loud. I think its extra effective when you come up with them together because then just by saying them, I feel like I'm obeying him because he helped me to come up with it. I don't know if that makes sense.
Im happy you guys came up with something concrete, I imagine that if HOH and I were not living together, it would be EXTREMELY important to me to have a very clear and structured plan! Good luck to you two!!!

[altbob]

@blackbird - I think it's a good thing. If an Hoh really takes his / her role seriously, the responsiblity can easily be overwhelming. That's one thing I have trouble getting some of my vanilla friends to understand. It's not just "Do this, do that" . It's about how it will affect your partner. And dishing out physical pain is no big deal. It's thinking about emotional pain and damage to the relationship that keeps you up nights and eats away at you. Subs understand this, I think, because they like the external structure and the freedom from big worries like that. Just do your chores, follow your checklist, and keep focused. But the Hoh has to plot the course.
I realize these are generalizations. I am not trying to say everyone does or should act this way.
But my point is his self doubt and worry is a sign that he truly treasures you, and values what you give him. There's no shortcut, but communication and mutual support are the magic ingredients, no matter what. Just remember this isn't necessarily a sign something is wrong, it's just a phase we all go through.

[blackbird]

Oh no!! Have just reaslised that a long post I wrote yesterday didn't submit...
B

[blackbird]

Well, it's been a frankly terrible week. Haven't known if we could speak again, let alone be in ttwd! But I took my courage in both hands and went to see him last night. We end up confusing each other with texts. I let the sub in me do the talking, let her needs help me keep my chin up and negotiate for what I want. And managed to redress the power balance for now. And you are all right of course, I needed that part of me to be there to stand up for myself but in reality I wouldn't want to give up my hard-won freedom and worldiness. And T would miss me if I never spoke until spoken to!!!

So, I guess we begin again. He only lives 10 minutes away on my bike so everything is workable, if we can work out the emotional dynamics between us. For now, I'm not going to see him at my flat, as that takes us backwards. But that's all I know. Everything has become so tangled, I feel as though we just have to chuck it out and start again. Thank you altbob, JA, W, Eayore, artlover, huney and lana, each and every one, for your comments. I have read and re-read them, in different moods and they have anchored me in a really dire situation.

I would really appreciate any ideas about how to move, tentatively, forward again. Should I just stop talking about ttwd with him for a while? Let him come back to me on it?

[JigsawAnalogy]

Good luck.

I would really appreciate any ideas about how to move, tentatively, forward again. Should I just stop talking about ttwd with him for a while? Let him come back to me on it?

Tentatively might be the right choice. My own experience is that it's a matter of feeling your way to where you need to be. You know him (and yourself) better than any of us, and it's likely that as you learn to trust your instincts, you'll have a sense of how to proceed.

I'm not sure I'd realized how physically close his place is to yours.

[W-Jigsaw'sBoss]

I don't think I can tell you what to do right now, because I'm not really clear if the conflict is ttwd or larger parallel issues. I'm not fishing for information here, I just don't think I have the whole picture, so I can't advise.

What I CAN say is that I marvel every day at how hard relationships are. I never had role models for couples working through hard shit, and some days I feel like J and I are inventing some round thing you can put underneath a car to make it go.

In the end, a good relationship is totally worth the work.

[blackbird]

What I CAN say is that I marvel every day at how hard relationships are. I never had role models for couples working through hard shit, and some days I feel like J and I are inventing some round thing you can put underneath a car to make it go.

Yup... that's about it. I love the analogy!

I teach singing, and it's all about metaphor - the voice is so internal you need images. And one day, in the middle of someone's lesson I said - 'well, we are just chipping away at the jigsaw puzzle'. I think of it every time I see "jigsaw analogy".

Oh, you are lovely....

B

[blackbird]

I'm not sure I'd realized how physically close his place is to yours.

That's probably because I felt a million miles away from him...