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This thing we do • View topic - Our Rules

Our Rules

Perhaps your household works without a structure. Go you. The rest of us mortals need to figure out how this thing works. This is a spot for talking about how we create the structure of our various domestic arrangements.

Re: Our Rules

Postby splorange » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:36 am

'I had made the mistake of powering up my consciousness without having the appropriate scaffolding in place'

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Re: Our Rules

Postby artlover » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:29 pm

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Re: Our Rules

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am

W and I don't precisely have a rule that I have to be sexually available when she wants sex, but in practice, if she initiates in a dominant way, nine times out of ten (possibly more) I will be available when she wants it.

In a less sexual situation, we do have a rule that I need to come out and talk with her when she gets home from work. That's one that really did change my behavior, to the point where even when our housemate gets home from work, I go out to talk with him, just because it's been ingrained in me to come out of my room when someone gets home....

As for whether or not punishment "works".... I know from experience that it's different for different people. As a kid, the possibility of being punished for something made me not do whatever it was. But with my siblings, the misbehavior was quite often more appealing than avoiding punishment, so it didn't really change their behaviors. So my take is that punishment does sometimes work, depending on the personality involved.
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Re: Our Rules

Postby Louise » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:54 pm

I think punishment can help as an incentive to do/not do certain things, though in my case it is mostly in the short term, rather than being a permanent cure for my vices.

I certainly agree that looking after young children is very demanding, and being bound by too many rigid rules would be very tiresome, allowing for no flexibility in taking them out etc.

But I don't agree that creating life if an exclusively female activity. It requires input from the male as well, women wouldn't get very far producing children without men.

And as the mother of three sons, I disagree VERY strongly that men are more expendible than women.

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Re: Our Rules

Postby splorange » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:58 pm

I agree that it's an equal partnership. But after all the centuries of 'woman was born to serve her mate' I think some consideration of the reverse possibility does no harm. I don't think Ice-cream was saying that one gender *was* created in God's image, merely that it's as likely that it was woman as man. Put it this way - someone who insists that God created man first and made woman as his helpmeet, would do well to consider the logic of looking at it the other way round. Because if one is objectionable, so is the other. And if one is a beautiful metaphor, they both are.
Last edited by splorange on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
'I had made the mistake of powering up my consciousness without having the appropriate scaffolding in place'

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Re: Our Rules

Postby splorange » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:42 pm

'I had made the mistake of powering up my consciousness without having the appropriate scaffolding in place'

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Re: Our Rules

Postby Louise » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:37 am

Well, if human life and its value is considered purely from a breeding point of view, then I am totally expendable, because my breeding days are over. A somewhat disconcerting thought.

But keeping humanity going requires more than breeding, and if you don't have enough men, areas in which men tend to excell are going to suffer. Technology, science, engineering, surgery, building etc. It'll be jolly difficult to get a plumber.

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Re: Our Rules

Postby splorange » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:04 am

Louise, I've offended you. I'm really sorry. Sometimes when looking at a theoretical concept, I examine it from a completely scientific point of view to get at all the available nuance from that standpoint. I wasn't making any kind of value judgement about anyone's life - I couldn't do that. I'm so sorry for upsetting you, and please believe it wasn't my intention. I don't consider any individual in the world expendable.

I don't agree that men naturally excel in the areas you describe more than women. It may be more common for them to have a natural preference, yes. But there is no innate reason why a woman should not work in any of those areas, and already a great many do.
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Re: Our Rules

Postby Ice-cream » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:27 pm

I'm at a loss as to how, or whether, to rejoin this discussion!
Possibly the word "fantasy" is problematic though I'm unsure what to offer as an alternative.
I'm not saying that ttwd doesn't work - but that it works as a whole package. There is a lot more happening in any ttwd-interaction than just punishment (that's why we all get so confused about our feelings). Artlover, I think, has expanded on it beautifully and much more cogently than I can. One of my concerns is that when the relational side of ttwd is ignored it can lead to a dangerous misapprehension that a failure to effect a change in behaviour can only be corrected by escalating the severity of the punishment. Over and over again I've read descriptions of the state of connection and catharsis that comes after a "good" spanking. But when a top starts off too hard and heavy, it can be difficult to sustain the episode long enough to get to that point. As a bottom I can testify that there is a world of difference between those types of spanking. If the detterant factor alone were controlling my behaviour then it would make sense that the latter type would be as or more effective than the former. But in reality, what is more likely to stop is the bottom's willingness to submit, rather than the behaviour that was the target of the punishment.

Louise - I didn't intend to be offensive in my deconstruction of CDD (well I guess I did really, but I'm sorry if I have upset you). Splorange has reiterated my point so nicely I don't need to. But it isn't my position that men are in anyway worthless or expendable or interchangeable. Sometimes when I watch Himself watching our children with such naked pride and love in his face, I think that if something were to happen to him, or if our relationship were to fail, and I ended up with a new partner, that another man, no matter how kind, would never look at the chidren that way. It frightens me so much to think of losing him, for his sake, for mine, but most of all for the children.
But I think that any society/philosophy/religion that does not value children above all else is dangerous and wrong, and history proves that over and over. Where children aren't treasured, mothers don't matter, women aren't valued, and men, who may hold the outer trappings of power are interchangeable at best, cannon fodder at worst. Hmmm, I suppose it is only fair to admit that I'm recovering from a deeply embarrassing Phillipa Gregory binge!!! But even more recently the layers upon layers of the clerical child abuse scandals coming to light surely back up my point?

I think men and women are different but equal, and I think that one of the goals of modern feminism is to cherish men. If we can't value each other, or we believe one better than the other, we are only paying lip service to the notion of equality.

Splorange - I think you were quoting your boyfriend's view originally on the expendability (?) of men, and I can't help wonder if that view is in part his way of coming to terms with the risks of a military career?

This has become such an intersting thread, but it has swung off it's original course and I'm conscious I haven't addressed the original topic! I love the simplicity of the approach you've achieved ddlovelife - it covers a multitude and the only parts to remember are the most important principles instead of tonnes of rules. We are still in the early stages, and have too few rules to forget yet. I hope we get to the point where we need to simplify one day!
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Re: Our Rules

Postby splorange » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:19 pm

'I had made the mistake of powering up my consciousness without having the appropriate scaffolding in place'

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Re: Our Rules

Postby Louise » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:29 pm

I'm not offended, just interested in the idea that one sex might be considered more expendable than the other.

I do think that, on the whole, men are better at technology, science, construction etc, and for that reason a shortage of men would be a distinct disadvantage. most scientific and technological advances have been the work of men. Not to mention the tensions that would arise among women from competing for a limited supply of men (one can only imagine the jealousy and cattiness that would result).

i think people who suggest that we could survive with fewer men have not thought through the disadvantages such a situation would bring,

But anyway, be that as it may, I tend to see punishment as having a positive effect on my own relationship with my husband, it is a more positive way for him to express any irritation he feels with me than getting angry and shouting at me. And it is good for him too, it tends to have a calming effect on him.
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