Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Perhaps your household works without a structure. Go you. The rest of us mortals need to figure out how this thing works. This is a spot for talking about how we create the structure of our various domestic arrangements.

Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:22 pm

amethyst wrote: So...so far, so good. This may actually work.


I like it when I get to that place. Congratulations to both of you!
Julia wrote:My reaction to "I owe you an apology" - do I choose it? I don't *think* so. But maybe I do need it to have that effect so maybe I choose to retain the significance.


That makes sense to me. I know that there are things that I don't *like* and don't *want*, but I know it's good for me to have them in place, and I ****really**** don't like how I feel when they *aren't* in place.

I will also say that this thread (and several others going on right now) got me to a place where I was able to be more submissive in asking for discipline, and it was more effective than I expected. Gearing myself up for going into W's room wearing my skirt without having been told to was hard, and felt awkward, but W responded well. It was even harder, for me, to go from going in with the skirt on to speaking up about the reason I had done it (because I knew I hadn't been respectful of her authority, and I needed her help to get to a more respectful place). It was hard, both because I knew it would change the tone of the spanking (from a playful good girl spanking to something more intense) *and* because it was admitting to failure and imperfection on my part--not major, and not unexpected, but I'll be honest and say that I wish I could behave appropriately without her help, and I'm embarrassed that I can't do that.
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Meg » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:45 pm

That is wonderful, JA.

I think it is time to bring out the dancing animals...I think I'll beat Julia to the punch :-D

:snoopy: :penguin: :cow: :elephant:

I'll even throw in a dancing banana :piano:
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Julia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:33 am

amethyst wrote:That is wonderful, JA.

I think it is time to bring out the dancing animals...I think I'll beat Julia to the punch :-D

:snoopy: :penguin: :cow: :elephant:

I'll even throw in a dancing banana :piano:


Amethyst, I'm appalled! You pinched all the dancing animals. How COULD you? :tantrum: :tantrum: :tantrum:

LOL

Glad we're finding some positives in the space and structure approach though. Keep going with the positive vibes everyone! :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Meg » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:47 am

Sorry, Julia...I couldn't resist 0:) ...the animals were calling, "Let me out of the smilie box." I told them, "Wait for Julia...she is going to want to let you out." They said, "We don't want to wait...we want to dance NOW."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though, I was thinking more about this, and I think that the reason this can be so hard is that there is so much pressure on all of us to be *perfect* and, when things go wrong, as they are bound to do, everyone always wants someone to blame...and, of course, it can't be themselves. I think that one of the nice things about ttwd is that it gives a mechanism for repentance (to use a Christian term) and forgiveness.

I was talking to O about this and what about when Tops need forgiveness, and she said, "That is what flowers and candy are for." :)
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Julia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:51 pm

Hahahahaha!

Love it! BOTH the animals AND the candy and flowers!
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Hammerhead » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:26 pm

I've found this thread incredibly helpful, so thank you to those who've contributed - particularly Julia, a few of the things you said really made things click in my head, and I think I finally understood a few of the issues my wife has been having lately. Despite considering herself a "bottom", she has a real problem with apologies - without going into too much irrelevent detail, I'll just say that she was very, very spoilt when she was younger, and she was never really encouraged or expected to apologise, or accept blame in any way. It's part of the reason why she's expressed such a strong need for boundaries and discipline within our marriage. But apologies were always a weird stumbling block for us, and I never quite understood where she was coming from when she said it was very difficult for her to apologise to me, but relatively easy for her to apologise to strangers in casual situations. The way I was raised, it was just something I was trained to do - I was encouraged to say "sorry" to people before I even had a clue what the word meant. I am simply used to apologising to people in various situations, it comes very naturally, and it doesn't make any difference whether it's a close family member or someone I've just met. I'd always found it deeply confusing that my wife could very easily say "i'm sorry" to a perfect stranger she'd bumped into in the street, yet couldn't apologise to me - her own husband - when she'd treated me badly during an argument. But thank you Julia, with your analysis of the situation I think you've helped me understand a little better. The semantic difference between "sorry" and "I owe you an apology" is not one I'd ever considered before, but now I've had time to think about it, there is quite a stark distinction there.

I'm going to ask my wife to join this board. I think she'd find it very helpful.
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Julia » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:43 pm

Very happy to have been of some help, Hammerhead.

Hope things work out nicely for you and your wife.

Jx
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Meg » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:22 am

As an update to Hammerhead and anyone else.

The new apology structure has been tested in practice and is working out *very* well in our house, and has prevented and/or greatly mitigated at least a few big blow ups. I described how it worked in detail near the end of the "What Would Nanny/Jo Do?" Forum in the Dilemma Thread where Julia first introduced her structure as part of her assistance to Obsidian and I during a rather major blow up in our house.

It sounds like the issues in your house are a little different than ours....but it would seem like the structure very well could address a number of different disciplinary issues, and I am quite grateful to Julia for introducing it.
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby W-Jigsaw'sBoss » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:24 pm

awesome!!! I'm looking forward to reading about how this plays out as it goes.

***hugs*** :luvya: :cheesy:
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby brightlyblaze » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:27 pm

Amethyst, glad to hear that the apology system is working well for you! That's such a great feeling when something clicks into place a little bit better.
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Re: Rules/Structure Regarding Apologies

Postby Meg » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:02 pm

I think that the most helpful thing has been learning to give myself space and being able to focus on MY state of mind. Before it was always about waiting for Obsidian to be ready for me or worrying about whether she would still be mad at me. What I am learning is to focus on preparing myself to handle her no matter what state she is in. This has also been helpful to me in handling her flashbacks. If I am not in place to handle it, I have been leaving, just as I would if I saw I was starting a fight. Instead of waiting until *her* flashback was finished, I am learning to wait until *I* am ready to handle her, no matter what state she is in.

It's also been nice, because there is a little more clarity to what to do about fights. Yes, I get punished for yelling at Obsidian, but if I pull back and get myself together, it is *much* less severe than if I continue, and it gives me a way out of the fight, that I have the power to do. It also makes it more clear if the fight goes on, because if I come out and re-engage her, and the fight continues, then it is VERY fair for me to get more severe punishment. If Obsidian re-engages me, and the fight continues, then I am not responsible for the escalation as far as ttwd goes, because she had the responsibility not to re-engage me until SHE was ready to handle me, no matter what state *I* was in.

We have still had fights....but we have been able to de-escalate them much, much more quickly since the structure has been in place. I think that the longest one we have had since has been a little over an hour. Most of the time, we have been able to de-escalate within about 10 to 15 minutes. This is *really* good, because the fights that caused me to post to receive advice were all-nighters...which were miserable.

I *am* getting spanked more, but I think that this is ok, and probably good. It's counter-intuitive, but by being given a little more control over the situation....being able to remove myself and not re-engage until *I* am ready...has made it much easier to get to a submissive frame of mind once I became ready. I think for me, it is less about the apologizing and more about the room to be in a place to do so, and to learn to focus on MY state of mind, rather than trying to control Obsidian's.
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