TTWD is dead...

Perhaps your household works without a structure. Go you. The rest of us mortals need to figure out how this thing works. This is a spot for talking about how we create the structure of our various domestic arrangements.

TTWD is dead...

Postby FootballJunkie » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:36 am

So, T and I have been married 4 months or so now. Marriage has been fantastic. However, one little thing is just lacking...there is no ttwd. None. It started out that he would give me a couple of swats for small things after we got married and he was trying maintenance Thursdays. However, I was always frustrated because I never felt properly punished. I would bring it up occasionally but not all the time because I didn't want to undermine him. Sometimes he would give me more, but it was pretty pathetic (Never more than 20-30 swats, always with his hand, very medium force). I finally told him that maintenance doesn't really mean a whole lot to me if he's not really paying attention to my actions throughout the week and giving sufficient consequences. It felt more like playing to be honest. After I told him what I thought maintenance was (more to reinforce than to punish), it stopped. I don't understand why. I keep trying to tell myself that I don't need ttwd, and then I find myself drawn to it and wondering why it doesn't happen. I come back here and lurk some and realize that maybe I'm not so crazy for wanting/needing this. Honestly, outside of this, we are happily married and communicate extremely well. So, it bothers me that this is such a difficulty. There are weeks that go by and I wonder if he's even thought about ttwd when it seems to consume many of my waking moments.
I know that T is a vanilla guy, but I'm in a bind here just because I've mentioned spanking a couple of times and he's said he would do it, only to wait, and wait...and wait...and wait some more with no results. I know it's been a while since I've posted anything on here and I guess it's just because I don't feel like I have anything to offer when nothing is going on here in this ttwd realm.
Anyways, do you all have any ideas? How do I bring this up (AND get results)?!?! Also, any ideas for helping a vanilla partner get more ok with this?

Sorry, I know that was a very rambling post. I just needed to get all of that off my chest.
Thanks for the help!
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby lana » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:28 am

You need to show him exactly what you need because the way of hinting around wont help. Find a good video of DD spanking like Chris and Ellie or Niko on spankingtube. Niko even has a free clip there where he teaches a newly wed husband what his wife wants and needs. They are both good at the scolding/discipline part as well. A picture is worth a thousand words.

BTW--Id also ask him if he has any videos of what turns him on (ex oral sex) so you can improve your technique too. It has to be a 2 way street. When he finds out what works for you, then he will really want to do it.

In the thread below called Restarting there are some good ideas too from Amythest.Also get him a small hardwood paddle like one from Caniac since it seems that hand spankings alone are not going to do it for you. Dont give up. If ttwd/DD is something you need deeply, the desire for it will not go away.
For us it got better and better. When we started my hoh spanked very severely, but didnt get the ritual and warm up/scolding part that I needed. He likes to please me and likes the benefits to a dd relationship so he gradually picked up on what I needed. [He is dominant by nature but not a dyed-in-the-wool spanko] Even the weekly list spanking is quite strict and he will put in reminders as well as spankings for Ive done over the week from his list.
Hope some of this helps and hope you keep us updated on how its going.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby Meg » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:44 pm

Good to here from you again, Football Junkie.

I am sorry that you are having problems with ttwd. No you are not crazy for wanting this, and if I remember, you were getting it somewhat before your marriage. Congratulations, by the way.

I would say to give it time. Things have *finally* started to click with Obsidian in the ttwd department....after 15 years of marriage *and* 10 years of trial and error, stops and starts with spanking, DD, ttwd and the like, and only *now* do things seem to be working on a somewhat satisfying level. Hopefully, it will not take you *that* much time....but, we also did not have this Board as a resource then.

Good luck to you....and it is really good to hear from you.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:17 am

You've got my sympathies. W and I have had times where ttwd didn't seem to be happening, and where it really seemed as though W wasn't thinking about it at all. What's worked best for us is to keep the lines of communication as open as we can. It doesn't make things perfect, and it doesn't mean that we don't have periods where it seems to me like the best route would be for me to just stop needing ttwd.... but if it's any encouragement at all, one thing I've recognized over the years is that even though she was not into discipline when we started this, W has recognized that doing this has benefits for her as well as for me, and *she* misses it when it's not happening.

Maybe it would help just to remember that ttwd is probably taking a nap, and not actually dead. It feels like it's completely gone, but if you keep communicating about what both of you need, it's likely that ttwd will return in time.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby altbob » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:23 am

You could try starting the communication by asking if he feels comfortable with it, and try to get an idea how you could make him more comfortable. Start out talking about whats going on in your and his heads, then start talking about what you actually want to do about it. Its not necessarily a fast solution, but if you don't know the motivation, any behavior changes will be transitory.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby Eayore » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:29 pm

My guess is TTWD is not dead, but it may be in a deep sleep which goes on and on. I know how grindingly depressing that can be. The good news is it will probably come back to life at some point, maybe when you are not expecting it. Perhaps your husband has something running which makes it hard to engage with spanking you in the way you want, and hence just can't bring himself to do it at all. I don't really have any advice about how to get it started again, at least not based on personal experience.

The advice from others to try talking about it seems good to me.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby FootballJunkie » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:38 am

Thank you all for your help. I thought I would update you, and let you know what has been going on since I last posted.

I finally was able to talk to T last night. I was going to wait because it was incredibly late (past midnight), but he noticed I was stressed and said that I hadn't been sleeping well all week, so he wanted to know what was up. I told him, and he admitted that basically he's just been lazy. Yes, he's stressed out with work, but he just didn't think that I really needed it/he didn't really want to put the effort in to go through with it. So, that was nice to at least have him admit. We talked for quite a while about why I want him to lead and how I think ttwd can help our relationship. He agreed. He says he wants to lead, he just didn't realize that it was such a big deal to me. We left it at that and he said he'd think on some things overnight. He did say though that he wasn't exactly sure about rules, but more like vague guidelines. He wants to give me plenty of freedom to be and do whatever I want (within reason...I hope...) Most people would :wine: :dancing: :hiphip: :driver: at this. Me...I'm more: :banghead: I don't feel like ttwd and having rules with hinder my self expression (or whatever I should call it), I just feel like it can help me be a better person.
So...I asked him tonight if he'd thought anymore about ttwd and he said not really, but that he would while he was getting ready for bed tonight. I told him that I was afraid that he would "not think" this into oblivion and he assured me that that wouldn't happen. In fact, we're supposed to meet tomorrow for a discussion on rules/guidelines in which we both write down some for me, and then we can see if he thinks mine are too restrictive and if I think his are too lenient.
On a side note, I guess what I'm worried about with vague "guidelines" is the whole fact that they're vague. I'm worried that I'll be able to weasel my way out of punishment, which I don't want because by and large he views me as a complete angel most of the time (when I'm not throwing things at the TV and yelling obscenities because my football team likes to give me a heart attack on a weekly basis :blush:). Anyways, I'll be back later to update you as things start happening! Hopefully this is the beginning. It really is like a complete restart...maybe ttwd was just in a deep sleep... :)
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby Meg » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:20 pm

FootballJunkie wrote:He did say though that he wasn't exactly sure about rules, but more like vague guidelines. He wants to give me plenty of freedom to be and do whatever I want (within reason...I hope...) Most people would at this. Me...I'm more: I don't feel like ttwd and having rules with hinder my self expression (or whatever I should call it), I just feel like it can help me be a better person.


Obsidian and I have had this same discussion. Here is the thing, vague guidelines do more to hinder my self-expression than specific rules.

Here is an example, we can have a rule, "be respectful." What does that mean? Does that mean I am not allowed to tell Obsidian if something she does upsets me? Obsidian may answer, sure you can tell me that, but in a respectful manner. I have some idea of what that means....but I am more likely to not say what is on my mind out of fear that Obsidian *might* find it disrespectful.

On the other hand, if she said to me, "Call me 'sir", don't raise your voice at me, and don't swear," this gives me a lot more room for self-expression. While I have a specific form of address, a requirement to modulate my volume, and requirements about the language I can use, I have a whole lot of room to express what I need to under those perimeters.

The thing is, the more specific the rule, the more control you ultimately have as a bottom. With clear, specific rules, you know when you should get spanked and when you shouldn't, and in a sense, if your Top is consistent, you can control whether you are going to get spanked by whether you conform to the specific rules.

If the rules are vague, the Top has more control. For example, he/she can decide at each instance whether your behavior was "respectful." I think that this is why Tops tend to prefer more vague guidelines and Bottoms prefer specific rules. What has worked for Obsidian and I is to start with specific rules and as we both become comfortable and natural with our roles to move towards general guidelines. Nothing has to be set in stone, and when things are no longer needed, or if they don't work, you can always change them.

As to the specific rules, I would suggest rules surrounding things that annoy him that you do. I am sure that there are some. If he can not tell you, I am sure that you, as his wife, have an idea of when he gets annoyed at you. If it is something that is truly important to *him*, he is more likely to be consistent. Also, maybe talk and find out whether *he* gets anything out of ttwd. I know that Obsidian likes the feeling of confidence and control she has when she is successful with Topping me. She also really, really likes when I get ultra-feminine, respectful and obedient. If you can help him get his needs met too, it is less likely to feel like a chore he *has* to do, and will be more what he *wants* to do....which will mean he will do it more, giving you more of what you want and need.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby lana » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:07 pm

amethyst wrote:
....As to the specific rules, I would suggest rules surrounding things that annoy him that you do. I am sure that there are some. If he can not tell you, I am sure that you, as his wife, have an idea of when he gets annoyed at you. If it is something that is truly important to *him*, he is more likely to be consistent. Also, maybe talk and find out whether *he* gets anything out of ttwd. I know that Obsidian likes the feeling of confidence and control she has when she is successful with Topping me. She also really, really likes when I get ultra-feminine, respectful and obedient. If you can help him get his needs met too, it is less likely to feel like a chore he *has* to do, and will be more what he *wants* to do....which will mean he will do it more, giving you more of what you want and need.
[/quote]
:yeahthat: This is good advice. Just a warning: Dont go for so many rules that you feel micromanaged. This is what happened in the beginning with me and my exbf -- he was glad to enforce them and he was very consistent in spanking me on the spot for violations.. However we had to temporarily call it off and regroup since it was driving me crazy. I felt too micromanaged because we were trying to make too many changes at once.

FJ-- It sounds like in your particular case that while you might like all the strict little rules, the risk is that the whole thing could become so picky and detailed, that the enforcement becomes overwhelming and onerous.
Like Amethyst suggested, I would set up some ground rules pertaining to things you do that he already does have a problem (like no tantrums, or no swearing or no raised voice or perhaps certain behaviors like turning out lights or locking the doors or no texting while driving) and be strict about those but not to bite off more than you (or him) can chew
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ps glad TTWD isnt dead afterall!
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:58 pm

amethyst wrote:Here is an example, we can have a rule, "be respectful." What does that mean? Does that mean I am not allowed to tell Obsidian if something she does upsets me? Obsidian may answer, sure you can tell me that, but in a respectful manner. I have some idea of what that means....but I am more likely to not say what is on my mind out of fear that Obsidian *might* find it disrespectful.


This one definitely varies from person to person. Perhaps it's because I've spent a lifetime walking the edges of respectful behavior, but a rule like "be respectful" (or, the variation we have here, "don't have attitude") works well for me. It also gives W leeway, because if I were in a mood to be disrespectful (who? *ME*?), having a few specific rules would do nothing to stop me. I am a creative person who could come up with a way of showing my disrespect without breaking a specific rule.

amethyst wrote:If the rules are vague, the Top has more control. For example, he/she can decide at each instance whether your behavior was "respectful." I think that this is why Tops tend to prefer more vague guidelines and Bottoms prefer specific rules. What has worked for Obsidian and I is to start with specific rules and as we both become comfortable and natural with our roles to move towards general guidelines. Nothing has to be set in stone, and when things are no longer needed, or if they don't work, you can always change them.


I think this is true, although what happened in my relationship was pretty much the opposite: W preferred specific rules, and I pushed for vaguer guidelines. When we have specific rules, I struggle to not obey the letter of the law, while ignoring the spirit. When the rules are just spirit, it works better, except.... W has trouble enforcing them, and has a strong tendency to cut more slack than is good for us.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby Meg » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:14 am

JigsawAnalogy wrote: It also gives W leeway, because if I were in a mood to be disrespectful (who? *ME*?), having a few specific rules would do nothing to stop me. I am a creative person who could come up with a way of showing my disrespect without breaking a specific rule.


Somehow this does not surprise me.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

See, for me, believe me, I really, really do try to obey the rules, except for when I don't
:lol: :lol: :lol:

When I disobey....I do either rather deliberately....like procrastinating when I don't feel like working....or out of impulse and anger. Either way, I am not going to find a way to creatively disobey the spirit, while obeying the letter. If I am going to break a rule, I am going to break it all out, thank you very much. No reason to do things halfway, you know.

Actually, that was the one problem when we were doing daily check-ins, and I was getting spanked if I had a problem that day and rewards if I did not have a problem. Once I messed up during the day and ruined the perfect day, I figured.....well, might as well make it worth my while, and I ended up being pretty bad the whole day. Did I mention I am a handful, or several handfuls. :lol: :lol: :lol:

What creates anxiety for me is not knowing whether I have disobeyed or not, which is more likely to happen if the rule is vague.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:38 am

amethyst wrote:Once I messed up during the day and ruined the perfect day, I figured.....well, might as well make it worth my while, and I ended up being pretty bad the whole day.


Wow. The punishment I get for messing up once is SO much less than if I deliberately misbehaved all day. Not that that's stopped me in the past, because it's true that there's only so bad a punishment is likely to get, so there is a point after which it makes sense to just keep going with misbehavior. (Particularly if one's top hasn't thought of the idea of extended punishments.)

amethyst wrote:What creates anxiety for me is not knowing whether I have disobeyed or not, which is more likely to happen if the rule is vague.


For me, for the most part, the vague rules are things like "attitude," and it's not something that W springs on me without my knowing. Even if I didn't know that I was crossing a line, I'd generally get at least one warning (although, I admit, there's been a time or two when I didn't *notice* the warnings). There *are* specific, binary-type rules where I know that I have either followed them or not--filling out my daily checklist, eating at least two meals, etc.

For the most part, I have to be deliberately misbehaving in order to get a punishment. Just about the only one that can surprise me is a punishment for a disrespectful attitude, and those punishments tend to be along the lines of "Hey! You've been warned and haven't noticed the warnings, so here's a reminder to pay attention."
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby Meg » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:33 pm

JigsawAnalogy wrote:Wow. The punishment I get for messing up once is SO much less than if I deliberately misbehaved all day. Not that that's stopped me in the past, because it's true that there's only so bad a punishment is likely to get, so there is a point after which it makes sense to just keep going with misbehavior. (Particularly if one's top hasn't thought of the idea of extended punishments.)


Well, you see, the issue for me is that I had already messed up my perfect day. Yes, Obsidian HAS thought of extended punishments....and now that Obsidian has become proficient with the cane (I have given her plenty of practice :blush: ) the punishment can get infinitely bad. I found out that one does not start to numb with the cane.

I think that the thing is consistency. One day respectful can mean one thing to Obsidian, and the next in can mean something else, depending on her mood and emotional state. With a specific rule, it is much easier for me to know that I have messed up, even if Obsidian has not been consistent. I can then apologize and submit to discipline....with Obsidian very clearly agreeing that I have broken a rule, rather than having to go through a period of indecisiveness over whether I should be disciplined or not.

Now that Obsidian is getting more confident, it is not so much of an issue. This was more of an issue while Obsidian was getting comfortable in the Top role.

I was thinking some more about your example of creatively getting around specific rules, and I think that you were demonstrating my point to the extent that specific rules give *you* as the Bottom more control (and more opportunity to misbehave :lol: ), while the vague rule gives *W* more leeway and control. That is why I think that starting with specific rules is easier when just starting or restarting ttwd, moving to more vague, fluid rules as both people get more comfortable with the power exchange. At least that is what Obsidian and I have found has worked the best during our many restarts.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby bodack » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:31 am

FootballJunkie wrote:Thank you all for your help. I thought I would update you, and let you know what has been going on since I last posted.

Snip Anyways, I'll be back later to update you as things start happening! Hopefully this is the beginning. It really is like a complete restart...maybe ttwd was just in a deep sleep... :)



A couple of sites for you. Shadowlane.com is one. Eve Howard gets it. She has a couple of tutorial videos on her site. She is a real nice lady and if you e-mail her she can probably suggest some useful videos.

The other is takeninhand.com. There are a lot of articles from women in your situation. It is interesting to read how they handle it. A couple of warnings though. He does not post all replies. He tends to block posts about spankings. Worse, he will edit posts before he puts them up. :banghead: I don't post anymore because of that.

I am not a fan of the site like I used to be but I think it will give you some interesting insights.
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Re: TTWD is dead...

Postby W-Jigsaw'sBoss » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:36 am

Resurrecting an old thread because I'm just trying to get back into conversation, I think that one thing specific rules are really useful for is when a top is feeling unsure, because specifics are very black and white. If I say don't do X and you do X, the consequence is BLAH. Vagueness requires much more of a critical thinking process.
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