Change of structure

Perhaps your household works without a structure. Go you. The rest of us mortals need to figure out how this thing works. This is a spot for talking about how we create the structure of our various domestic arrangements.

Change of structure

Postby splorange » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:25 pm

My boyfriend and I have decided for the moment to stop with ttwd, and keep spanking for play scenarios. I am in a place at the moment where I'm seeing too many examples of men objectifying and depersonalising women, and I don't wish to allow any man authority over me (or woman, come to that). I'm also finding it hard to come across descriptions of ttwd without words that are emotive for me, such as disrespect and disobedience. Or even just discussions that make it clear the top is thinking of their own convenience and not the bottom's emotional health. My boyfriend also needs to learn more about the theory and practice of ttwd, because he has been acting on his interpretation of what I tell him, and that has led to too many errors.

I will continue to be part of the board and contribute to discussions, and I hope that we'll get back to the life that I want to have. It's just that the conflicting issues that have been bothering me for so long have come to a head, and for now this is the only way I can be true to myself. If anyone knows of a blog with a revolutionary approach to ttwd, with co-authority as its basis, I would be grateful if you could let me know.

Thanks and thank you all for being here, for being interesting, and for being great xxx
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Ice-cream » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:59 pm

This is a very hard thing to wrap your head around, isn't it?
Go easy on yourself, ok? I think you are very brave to take this step backwards and to give yourself a chance to try another perspective. Please don't disappear from here though!!! I'd really miss your unique perspective.

You may find that particular scenes or emotions or fantasies or phrases occur in play that resonate well for you and this might be a guide towards working out what aspects of spanking/power exchange/ discipline/ SM/ Ds work for you, and why.

As for an interesting blog well I'm hoping to be reading yours soon! So much of ttwd (and I'm using the acronym in its widest possible sense) is in its infancy, or to be specific the discourse that has evolved in online communities is very new and very limited. The same elements occur over and over whether in fiction or supposedly factual accounts, whether in present day or historical settings...frankly it's dull. There must be as many ways of doing this as there are couples to try but the diversity isn't apparent. Yet. And if there isnt yet a way of talking about this that doesn't involve the words you mentioned then it is up to us to create it. Because we can't be the only two women grappling with this concept.

I have lots more to say but I'm on my phone tonight and one fingered hunt and peck does not promote articulate argument! Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to elaborate.

In the meantime I hope your decision is a fruitful one. Good luck.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:26 am

I'm glad that you will be sticking around here, and even more glad that you're able to be aware of what you need in order to be healthy and secure. Good luck as you figure that out.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:56 pm

JigsawAnalogy wrote:I'm glad that you will be sticking around here, and even more glad that you're able to be aware of what you need in order to be healthy and secure. Good luck as you figure that out.


I will be part of this community as long as there's at least one person here to shoot the breeze with! My boyfriend has also signed up - you might have discovered a 'splapple' waiting for approval in your inbox!! (At least, that's what he told me he's calling himself, but he might just have been being facetious)

Ice-cream wrote:This is a very hard thing to wrap your head around, isn't it?
Go easy on yourself, ok? I think you are very brave to take this step backwards and to give yourself a chance to try another perspective. Please don't disappear from here though!!! I'd really miss your unique perspective.

You may find that particular scenes or emotions or fantasies or phrases occur in play that resonate well for you and this might be a guide towards working out what aspects of spanking/power exchange/ discipline/ SM/ Ds work for you, and why.

As for an interesting blog well I'm hoping to be reading yours soon! So much of ttwd (and I'm using the acronym in its widest possible sense) is in its infancy, or to be specific the discourse that has evolved in online communities is very new and very limited. The same elements occur over and over whether in fiction or supposedly factual accounts, whether in present day or historical settings...frankly it's dull. There must be as many w ays of doing this as there are couples to try but the diversity isn't apparent. Yet. And if there isnt yet a way of talking about this that doesn't involve the words you mentioned then it is up to us to create it. Because we can't be the only two women grappling with this concept.

I have lots more to say but I'm on my phone tonight and one fingered hunt and peck does not promote articulate argument! Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to elaborate.

In the meantime I hope your decision is a fruitful one. Good luck.


Thank you for this. I would love to hear more from you on it. Though it's kind of a pity you'll be up-ranked soon - Ice-cream with an ice-cream under her is so perfect!

I think you're right about needing to evolve the discourse more. I am going to blog - I have a blog actually, but it's not very good - but I am also supposed to be writing a thesis so whenever I have the urge to type I'm trying to go there first and here second! Right now I feel that spanking in play scenarios will be enough to keep my spanko side fulfilled - of course a few months ago it wasn't enough, which was part of how ttwd started for me! In any case, I'm already having lots of ideas occur to me and I'm confident this is going to make me more in tune with myself and improve our relationship.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:49 pm

As an update, right now we are on one rule per day, with spanking basically as he sees fit. This works for me. The spanking is my favourite bit to be honest... the rules are the hard part!
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:23 am

splorange wrote:... I am in a place at the moment where I'm seeing too many examples of men objectifying and depersonalising women, and I don't wish to allow any man authority over me (or woman, come to that). I'm also finding it hard to come across descriptions of ttwd without words that are emotive for me, such as disrespect and disobedience. Or even just discussions that make it clear the top is thinking of their own convenience and not the bottom's emotional health. My boyfriend also needs to learn more about the theory and practice of ttwd, because he has been acting on his interpretation of what I tell him, and that has led to too many errors.


It can all be quite tricky, can't it? It's always important to remember that for "ttwd" to be healthy, for you and your partner, it has to be "ttyd" - that thing YOU do, that satisfies your needs. The self-awareness to recognize when it isn't working, and isn't satisfying those needs, is a wonderful trait.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:50 am

Thanks Nat - great to see you back! Are you home from your wine holiday? How was :)
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:33 am

The trip was great! It was so nice to have a quiet week with Liz, just the two of us and her not distracted by work like she usually is. And Napa was wonderful. Liz had been there before, so she knew which wineries would be interesting and fun to visit. We got private tours at several of them - I actually know something about wine now. :) And there was a LOT of wine. :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine:

There was also more ttwd than I expected, which wasn’t good for my bottom but was probably good for me. :sigh: It was definitely good for LIz - she clearly enjoyed herself, while I've never spent that much time in a single week staring at the carpet and the walls. Fortunately there was the :wine: :wine: to ease the pain. :)
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:29 am

If nothing else, there's always wine :wine: alcohol's painkilling properties make a big difference! Maybe you'll feel better about all the ttwd soon - if Liz enjoyed it there's that benefit to the relationship if nothing else.

Reminds me that my new trick when I realise I've come to the bottom of a bottle is to leave a tiny drop at the end to convince myself I didn't really go through a whole bottle. This is utterly terrible the following day though, when I think there's wine in the fridge and end up being disappointed.

On the whole though that sounds great :) it's so lovely to get quality time together without day-to-day distractions. It's a great recharge for the soul.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:35 pm

The ttwd was definitely a surprise - I’d thought there wouldn’t be any since we were staying in hotel room in L.A. and a bed and breakfast in Napa. I didn’t realize Liz booked us into a b and b with a suite above a garage separate from the main house, so we had plenty of privacy. She’s just so thoughtful. :thinking:

I’m fine with our ttwd as it is now, even though things have changed so much for us this year. Some of it hasn't been easy to adjust to – not so much more spankings or introduction of the cane :sigh: :sigh: , but things like getting “just because” spankings and the fantasy or roleplay activities that Liz likes. It’s worth it though, because focusing more on what Liz wants and what makes her happy, both in ttwd and outside of it, has definitely been a positive for our relationship.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:22 pm

Nat wrote:The ttwd was definitely a surprise - I’d thought there wouldn’t be any since we were staying in hotel room in L.A. and a bed and breakfast in Napa. I didn’t realize Liz booked us into a b and b with a suite above a garage separate from the main house, so we had plenty of privacy. She’s just so thoughtful. :thinking:


Ha, wow! Very thoughtful... Sounds like the kind of thing I'd do! I'm sure there were other positive privacy effects though other than being able to spank *really* loudly and often?

Nat wrote:I’m fine with our ttwd as it is now, even though things have changed so much for us this year. Some of it hasn't been easy to adjust to – not so much more spankings or introduction of the cane :sigh: :sigh: , but things like getting “just because” spankings and the fantasy or roleplay activities that Liz likes. It’s worth it though, because focusing more on what Liz wants and what makes her happy, both in ttwd and outside of it, has definitely been a positive for our relationship.


I'm really happy this has improved your relationship! And you're happy about it too?

By the way, everyone else, feel free to join in the conversation. I feel like we're doing something publicly that should be in the PMs, but all of you are welcome here!
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:57 pm

splorange wrote:Ha, wow! Very thoughtful... Sounds like the kind of thing I'd do! I'm sure there were other positive privacy effects though other than being able to spank *really* loudly and often?


Oh yes! :lovey:

splorange wrote:I'm really happy this has improved your relationship! And you're happy about it too?


The effect on our relationship is so positive I have to be happy about it for that. But if I'm honest I'm not happy about the change in ttwd itself, because it doesn't work for as well for me. That sounds selfish, and I guess it is - why shouldn't ttwd be a balance or compromise including what works best for Liz? But it was almost perfect before - as close to perfect for me as Liz could make it - and now....well, I'm adjusting.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:08 am

Hmmm. I'm not sure what to make of that. I wouldn't say it's selfish - it's natural to be ambivalent about things you don't like, even if you can see they have a positive effect. (I rarely get excited about taking antibiotics, but it's not selfish of me!) It's hard to gauge your exact tone. You sound like you're mostly okay about it, but I suppose it depends to what extent you're not happy with it. There's a difference between not enjoying something, and feeling uncomfortable or unsafe. But you don't need me to tell you that.

As far as compromise goes - well I remember reading that compromise is the equivalent of 1 + 1 = 1.5. On the other hand, synergy is 1 + 1 + 3! Maybe you and Liz could talk about the aspects you both like and what she's going for with 'just because' spankings and roleplaying. Then maybe together you could come up with something that makes you both happier? I don't know exactly how - maybe if you isolate what you don't like and figure out a way to avoid it, without losing the fundamentals?

On the other hand, if you feel the dynamic in your relationship is generally that Liz gives more than you, you might prefer to let her have this.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:08 pm

I don’t mean to make it sound like I’m unhappy, because I’m not. And it’s not that I’m unhappy with our ttwd, it just satisfied MY needs better the way it was before so in some ways I wish it hadn’t changed.

splorange wrote:... Maybe you and Liz could talk about the aspects you both like and what she's going for with 'just because' spankings and roleplaying. ...


Actually it was talking that caused things to change in the first place. :) It was probably before your time on the board, but several things happened – culminating in our sharing of New Year’s resolutions – that caused me to wonder whether there was something going on with Liz. So I initiated a talk about ttwd, and at the end of a long evening of food, wine, and conversation I found myself encouraging her to introduce those things she wanted into ttwd. Be careful what you wish for – you just might get what you wish for, I guess. (Given how often we recommend communicating when ttwd isn't giving someone what they want, I've often thought it might be useful to start a Communication is a Two-Way Street topic :) )

splorange wrote:On the other hand, if you feel the dynamic in your relationship is generally that Liz gives more than you, you might prefer to let her have this.


In many ways she always has. My not thinking about her or paying attention to what she wants has been one of her complaints, and resulted in discipline several times. I'd thought she was exaggerating - it wasn’t until our talk after New Year’s that I recognized just how right she was, and along with that just how much attention she’d been paying to what I want and need. Using your definitions, I suppose we were in a place where Liz was compromising on ttwd, but I wasn’t; now we’re both compromising, achieving a degree of synergy. If the formula is based on how much each of us gets from ttwd, we've gone from 1 + .5 = happy, to .75 + .75 = happier.

So I’m not just letting her have this, I want her to have this. And as much as I enjoyed ttwd before it changed for us, I'm convinced that what we have now in our relationship wouldn't be possible without those changes.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:08 am

Thanks for clarifying, Nat. Hearing that makes me feel a lot better about what you've said. Maybe it'll start to feel better for you as well this way and then everyone will be happy!
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