Change of structure

Perhaps your household works without a structure. Go you. The rest of us mortals need to figure out how this thing works. This is a spot for talking about how we create the structure of our various domestic arrangements.

Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:04 am

Thanks splorange - explaining what's happening does help sort out my feelings about how ttwd is working.

How is your new arrangement? It's been over three weeks since spanking changed from ttwd to (mostly?) play for you. Is it keeping your inner spanko fulfilled like you hoped it would?
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Re: Change of structure

Postby artlover » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:12 pm

Nat wrote:The trip was great! It was so nice to have a quiet week with Liz, just the two of us and her not distracted by work like she usually is. And Napa was wonderful. Liz had been there before, so she knew which wineries would be interesting and fun to visit. We got private tours at several of them - I actually know something about wine now. :) And there was a LOT of wine. :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine:

There was also more ttwd than I expected, which wasn’t good for my bottom but was probably good for me. :sigh: It was definitely good for LIz - she clearly enjoyed herself, while I've never spent that much time in a single week staring at the carpet and the walls. Fortunately there was the :wine: :wine: to ease the pain. :)


That sounds wonderful. Putting us in your place, the thought of a nice week alone with my wife, with her spending plenty of time over my lap, sounds really fantastic.

I am not much on winery tours, but would be quite happy on such a trip, given the other activities. About three or four years ago, when we were doing much more ttwd, there was a cottage available to us in a very nice area about 5 hours drive away. I was not a huge fan of heading up there for just a week end, given the drive to and from, and packing up everything, including our kids, who were smaller. But my wife loved to go at most opportunities. Generally, I always agreed, with no grumbling, when she wanted to go, but made it quite clear that her bottom was going to hear about it after we got there. I would do the driving, load and unload, and watch the kids for her having time with the book stores and pottery and quilting shops and that sort of thing. But after the kids went down, she spent plenty of meaningful time over my lap. Kids in bed, lights low, nice fire going in fireplace, glass of wine, and wife over lap. Good times indeed.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:50 am

Nat wrote:Thanks splorange - explaining what's happening does help sort out my feelings about how ttwd is working.

How is your new arrangement? It's been over three weeks since spanking changed from ttwd to (mostly?) play for you. Is it keeping your inner spanko fulfilled like you hoped it would?


I'm very glad to hear talking helps. Generally, talking or writing about what I'm doing and feeling is the only thing that helps me get a sense of what's going on in my head.

I'm actually not even sure how it is working for me at the moment. I'm really busy getting ready to go away (moving to Hungary for a study year) and I feel pretty divorced from my sexuality because of stress and work. So I haven't really had time to think about whether it's working or not! I can say that it had been. I was starting to feel as if we could go back to having rules. But at the moment things aren't so positive and we haven't had the time alone together to listen to our thoughts.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:29 am

artlover wrote:…That sounds wonderful. Putting us in your place, the thought of a nice week alone with my wife, with her spending plenty of time over my lap, sounds really fantastic. ….
But after the kids went down, she spent plenty of meaningful time over my lap. Kids in bed, lights low, nice fire going in fireplace, glass of wine, and wife over lap. Good times indeed.

It sounds like that was a great trip! Liz was in a mood like that all week – she just had a wonderful time. And there was something about being away from home and spending the entire week with a tingling/sore bottom and in a “just been spanked” frame of mind, with Liz constantly doing little things to remind me that I’d been spanked, that gave me that warm, safe, loved feeling that is the best of ttwd.

splorange wrote:
I'm actually not even sure how it is working for me at the moment. I'm really busy getting ready to go away (moving to Hungary for a study year) and I feel pretty divorced from my sexuality because of stress and work. So I haven't really had time to think about whether it's working or not! I can say that it had been. I was starting to feel as if we could go back to having rules. But at the moment things aren't so positive and we haven't had the time alone together to listen to our thoughts.


It’s good that it was working, at least – I hope you can get back to that place.

Hungary!? I imagine it’s an exciting time also in the middle of all the stress. Will you be able to, or try to, maintain any type of ttwd with your boyfriend while you’re away?
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:05 pm

Yes, I'm doing a year's advanced study in the Kodaly Institute of music pedagogy. It's a joint performance/education diploma with the focus on playing piano with advanced singing students and coaching them. I'm actually just after arriving! In my hotel enroute to my new home.

As far as ttwd goes, we had good plans for how to make it work - once I'm settled in I'll give him my schedule and let him know what pressing school demands I have. And then he was to make some of the decisions regarding how I organised my day. However, at the moment I just don't want to do it at all. I can't feel right about it somehow. I've been reading a lot of feminist literature so maybe that's uppermost in my mind - at the same time I feel that what I'm reading is important and I should be reading it. At any rate, I love him so much that it doesn't seem necessary right now - our relationship is perfect apart from the thousand miles separating us! And it's impossible to plan how things will be once I'm into a routine. Everything is changing daily now and so are my moods.

Thanks for asking! I'm touched :)

It sounds like the ttwd aspect of your holiday was great. I love how safe it feels when you never have the chance to get out of the spanked mindset.
'I had made the mistake of powering up my consciousness without having the appropriate scaffolding in place'

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Re: Change of structure

Postby Lady Governess » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:21 am

Oh Splorange! What an outstanding opportunity for you. All the best with that course of study.

I've read a little feminist literature in my time too and yu know what I think? Feminists have a tendency to cut off our noses to spite our faces. If submission empowers you in the region of the soul, don't allow a writer with different inclinations to rob you of that. It's your call, of course, but I learned a long time ago that political agendas generally don't benefit individuals in their innermost being.

enjoy that course though, whatever you decide in other areas.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:55 am

Lady Governess! I don't believe we've met, but I've come across you in the back catalogue. Lovely to talk to you and thanks for replying to my problem :) I'm expecting it to be a great year.

I think you may very well be right. I haven't changed my setting on this site from bottom to regular registered user, because I know a bottom is what I am. But equally I need to put some thought into the form in which ttwd will work best for us. And I'm not going to start on that till I have a routine of sorts. I'm feeling very good about life and our relationship at the moment anyway.

I do hope you'll be online some more soon!
'I had made the mistake of powering up my consciousness without having the appropriate scaffolding in place'

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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:50 pm

splorange wrote:Yes, I'm doing a year's advanced study in the Kodaly Institute of music pedagogy. It's a joint performance/education diploma with the focus on playing piano with advanced singing students and coaching them. I'm actually just after arriving! In my hotel enroute to my new home.


That sounds fantastic. I hope you have a wonderful year!

splorange wrote:As far as ttwd goes, ... at the moment I just don't want to do it at all. I can't feel right about it somehow. I've been reading a lot of feminist literature so maybe that's uppermost in my mind - at the same time I feel that what I'm reading is important and I should be reading it. At any rate, I love him so much that it doesn't seem necessary right now - our relationship is perfect apart from the thousand miles separating us!


Ah, the advantage of being gay - I don't have to worry about the cultural baggage of the male-female dynamic! :)

It seems like ttwd has to be just a part of who we are - however large or small that part is - and even if it's an important part it doesn't define us. So if ttwd doesn't feel right for you now, no matter the reason, then it's not right for you. And with your relationship that close to perfect - "close" being a terrible word choice for a thousand mile separation, I know - maybe you can just feel very lucky (to paraphrase your other post) and not worry at all about ttwd for now.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby altbob » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:00 pm

Congratulations on the study year! I hope it goes well for you.
I must admit to mixed feeling on feminist literature. There seems to be 2 kinds. The "you can do what you want" kind and the "all women should be like stereotypical men in the 1950's, with men preferably being secretaries.".
I have no idea if ttwd is right for you, or if you personally are a bottom, Top, or switch.
When you talk about reading things that deal with respect and disobedience, I have thought about this a lot. To me, if you think, or your boyfriend thinks, that all women should be or naturally are submissive, that's a bit off. Or that men are superior/dominant/etc.
However, if your boyfriend wants a woman who is submissive, thats no more wrong than wanting a woman who is dominant. The same goes for you. People can want anything in a partner they like. They can't force a partner to be different, but everyone can define for themselves what their ideal relationship is. I personally feel if they are smart they'll leave some room for compromise in there. But tolerance and freedom are some things the original feminist movement was founded on.
Just to clarify, there are still a lot of feminists out there like that, I don't think they are all the mean ones. Feminism is like Christianity. There are some nutjobs who are way off in left field, and want to put all unbelievers to the sword. But thats not the majority, even if its who the media most likes.
Sorry for ramble, I spend a fair amount of time thinking about this to make sure I'm not being an evil bastard.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby artlover » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:00 pm

I am no fan of feminism, as I understand it, and think that taking it too seriously would be fatal to any any Mf dd relationship. I know that many women who like hetero dd relationships have thought long and hard over how to conceptualize a version of feminism that would accommodate their desire to be disciplined by their male partner. I do not think most feminists would recognize this as a feminist position. I certainly do not think of feminism as being about women doing what feels right for them. I think of it as holding women's actions, and yes, their desires, to a standard that strongly opposes anything that is at all redolent of "traditional sex roles." (Not that male led DD is really traditional. I doubt the stereotypical 50s wife was spanked by her husband, though presenting wives as though they were was seen as naughty and sexy, rather than as ideologically abhorrent, as is often the case today.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby artlover » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Nat wrote:
splorange wrote:Ah, the advantage of being gay - I don't have to worry about the cultural baggage of the male-female dynamic! :)


Yes, that is, in many quarters, a "get out of jail free" card on the issue of dd, dominance and submission, and the like, in relationships. Though my understanding is that there is a current of feminist thought that is appalled by what it sees as lesbian couples reproducing a same sex version of traditional sex roles.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby lana » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:22 pm

[/quote]
artlover wrote:
..... my understanding is that there is a current of feminist thought that is appalled by what it sees as lesbian couples reproducing a same sex version of traditional sex roles.


Dont think this is anything new. I m not gay but i do think that its gone on a long time, since before the 50s i believe, that in many lesbian relationships , one of the pair takes on dom role while her partner takes a more fem or sub role. Maybe this is a pattern that theyre now trying to change; and they see dd as a stumbling block.

lana :llama:
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Re: Change of structure

Postby splorange » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:52 pm

artlover wrote:I am no fan of feminism, as I understand it, and think that taking it too seriously would be fatal to any any Mf dd relationship. I know that many women who like hetero dd relationships have thought long and hard over how to conceptualize a version of feminism that would accommodate their desire to be disciplined by their male partner. I do not think most feminists would recognize this as a feminist position. I certainly do not think of feminism as being about women doing what feels right for them. I think of it as holding women's actions, and yes, their desires, to a standard that strongly opposes anything that is at all redolent of "traditional sex roles." (Not that male led DD is really traditional. I doubt the stereotypical 50s wife was spanked by her husband, though presenting wives as though they were was seen as naughty and sexy, rather than as ideologically abhorrent, as is often the case today.


I think the feminist literature you've read is indicative of a *very* precise and rare position in the movement. Feminism is supposed to be about empowerment of both genders. It is really not the case that I am feeling 'I want this, but feminism says I can't'. My desire to be spanked is in conflict with my other desires that are part of my being a feminist, and I feel stifled by discipline, though I like it in other ways. So I'm being pushed two ways by my own feelings.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby artlover » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:36 pm

Certainly, the feminist literature I have read is of an academic orientation, and largely has been in the law reviews. But, IMO, the statement "Feminism is supposed to be about empowerment of both genders" makes no sense to me. What is specifically "feminist" about that statement? If you had said, "empowering all women, whatever their views" it still would not match my understanding of it. But I don't see anything specifically feminist about empowering men.
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Re: Change of structure

Postby Nat » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:58 pm

artlover wrote: Yes, that is, in many quarters, a "get out of jail free" card on the issue of dd, dominance and submission, and the like, in relationships. Though my understanding is that there is a current of feminist thought that is appalled by what it sees as lesbian couples reproducing a same sex version of traditional sex roles.


I’m not an expert on lesbian relationships – often not even my own :) – but my impression is that while relationships reproducing traditional roles certainly exist, the number is pretty small and those types of relationships aren't a trend. So I don’t know if it’s a “current of thought” to be appalled by those relationships, although I’m sure there are feminists who are appalled when they see it occur. Personally I guess I'm not appalled, although I find it a little confusing.

Where they exist, I think concerns about traditional sex roles aren't directed towards dd, etc. – people who are appalled by dd are likely appalled by it in any type of relationship – but towards relationships where one partner is assuming a traditional “man’s role” by doing things like controlling finances, making the important decisions, etc., while the other partner is fulfilling the traditional “woman’s role” in things like cooking, cleaning, housekeeping, etc. None of the lesbian couples I know fit that dynamic - not even the ones who people would call "butch-femme" on the looks test - and Liz and I very definitely don’t.
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