Safe Words?

Perhaps your household works without a structure. Go you. The rest of us mortals need to figure out how this thing works. This is a spot for talking about how we create the structure of our various domestic arrangements.

Re: Safe Words?

Postby bodack » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:26 pm

I have a real problem with safe words. It might be because I handle pain differently. I have been spanked until my butt was bruised for three weeks or bloody. I really didn't feel the pain. Quite boring actually. It would've been nice if the spanker had stopped before it got to that point.

I've also had a couple of scenes where I completely forgot the safe word or was unable to use it. On one occasion it wasn't that painful a spanking just a very sharp sting. I do remember looking over my shoulder at the lady who was spanking me and wondering what it was ever going to stop. The SafeWord never crossed my mind.

On another occasion the spanking was more of a burning type and she got me yelling at her to stop and again I could remember the safe word. It didn't even cross my mind to use it. After she let me up I was so shaken I didn't dare say anything for about five minutes. The spankings that drove me over the edge didn't leave any marks. Just a nice red glow all over my butt. I have only had one spanking that I wanted to stop yet still retained the mental ability to use a safe word.

For that reason I prefer the spankings to be tied to a known number of swats based on the instrument.

I do agree with some of the commenters that punishment spankings should always be too hard if only just a little bit. truly begging someone to stop is a sign of submission. A safe word means the bottom is in control of the severity of the spanking and that's fine for play but not for a real discipline spanking.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:46 am

A safe word means the bottom is in control of the severity of the spanking and that's fine for play but not for a real discipline spanking.


i disagree with this quite a lot.

i don't use safewords because the spanking is uncomfortable, or even when i can't handle it. i use them when there is a safety issue at hand, whether it's my physical safety or my mental safety. if there is something going seriously wrong, i need to know that i can communicate that to w., and she needs to know that i *will* communicate that to her.

i've had a number of spankings where the pain was intense, or that i felt i couldn't cope with, but didn't use a safeword, because while i felt like i couldn't handle one more stroke, i also knew that there wasn't anything actually causing problems.

but if i know that a stroke is landing in a bad place (ie, too close to my previously broken tailbone) or if the spanking is sending me into dangerous headspace (ie, triggering flashbacks), it's vital that i be able to stop them.

we don't use safewords often, but they are there for a reason. i think of them kind of like airbags in a car. it's not that you plan on using them, but if they ever were needed, they're there to keep you safe.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby Alison » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:31 am

Wow, this thread is really interesting. I can't believe I didn't see it before. Danielle sent me over here and I thought it was because we recently had a sort-of-issue with safewords, but it turns out our issues are not nearly exhausted yet, lol. Sorry to be cryptic, I'll be sure to post (or get her to post) when we have had a little talk about it.

I strongly disagree that the having of safewords means the bottom is topping from the bottom or that it means the DD has strayed into BDSM. I would not consider spanking without a safeword. Yes, I will try to take my cues from her but if I am going to ignore her pleas to stop and really take her to her limits in spanking terms, there needs to be something in place there for if I go to far and she can tell but I can't right then. I trust her as an adult to be able to know if there really is a Problem rather than just not liking what is happening. I would never consider spanking children, but one of the peripheral reasons for this has to be that with children you could not have a safeword. Danielle is not a child, and however much she needs me to help discipline her, the bottom line (ha) is always with her if we are to have a partnership together. It may seem a little strong, but I would consider DD without a safeword as tantamount to domestic violence, and I have the feeling the courts (at least here) would agree with me if such a case was ever brought.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby bodack » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:00 am

Alison wrote: It may seem a little strong, but I would consider DD without a safeword as tantamount to domestic violence, and I have the feeling the courts (at least here) would agree with me if such a case was ever brought.



LOL!

I wonder if we are getting back into the consensual nonconsent or is it nonconsensual consent discussion. When you say you have the feeling that the courts would agree with you I have to agree also. Here in Texas if a woman says that she felt fear it is enough to get the man thrown in jail and a temporary restraining order preventing him from going back to his own house.

I would only consider it domestic violence if the woman was for some reason unable to leave. As an example let me talk about Britney Spears. She makes more in a month than I make in two years or more and if we're in a relationship and I spanked her when she didn't want to get spanked she has the option to leave. I'm 50 years old and I've been quite a few relationships where someone has done something I consider completely out of line and had to make the decision whether to stay in a relationship. It doesn't have to be physical. There are many forms of abuse, emotional, financial and of course physical.

I pick on Britney Spears because she has a cute butt and rumor has it she is into spanking.

If I may clarify my previous post about safe words, one of my issues is that it relieves the spanker of responsibility. If they are only listening for the SafeWord then there's a huge danger involved. As I pointed out I have been spanked until I've been bruised for three weeks and I never wanted that. Whatever we call this thing we do it has a lot to do with other forms of sex. It's truly best when you don't have to ask for what you want. And that includes having the other person stop the punishment. :fencing:

Whether you are in the DD, BD SM or other type or relationship there is always the chance of crossing the line. In fact I will go as far to say that it will happen. If both parties really want the relationship to work they have to understand that. :weird:
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:43 am

i don't think safe words relieve the spanker of responsibility.

perhaps there is an assumption that safe words are used routinely? in my household, this isn't true.

they are more of a safety backup. think about fire extinguishers. we have one, but that doesn't relieve us of the responsibility for paying attention when we're cooking. it just means that if something goes wrong, we've got a way to keep it from turning into a total disaster. our car has airbags, which doesn't mean we don't drive safely, but if something goes wrong, we have a little extra backup.

and the safe word doesn't mean that i (as a bottom) am in control of what happens. it just means that if i know something is wrong, usually something that w wouldn't be able to tell on her own, i can give her that information quickly.

i don't abuse the safe word. there is a lot of trust between the two of us, and w knows that the only time i would use it is if there were a real problem.

in some ways, it makes the consensual non-consent work better. during a spanking, she knows that i'm going to be asking for it to be over, and telling her i don't want any more. she continues to use her judgment about whether i've had enough. but if i use a safe word, she will know that there is something that is actually *wrong*; often, it's just a chance to pause and check in. in our case, using a safe word doesn't automatically mean the spanking is over, it just stops long enough to correct whatever the problem was.

i think some of the resistance to safewords is part of a fantasy wherein the spanker is somehow omniscient, and is able to know--without communication--what is best for the bottom. to me, that's more about fantasy than reality. no matter how much i want her to, w is not going to be able to read my mind. she knows me well, and most of the time she can tell what i need, but that doesn't mean she knows everything that's going on for me.

and more, i am more aware of the sensations in my body than she is, and i'm the one who can tell when a stroke landed wrong or in a place that will cause the wrong kinds of pain. (a sore but is acceptable, but a re-broken tailbone is not an acceptable part of discipline. nor would it fall into the category of "safe and sane," even if it happened consensually.)

clearly, i feel pretty strongly on this subject.

and what's funny is, we so rarely use safe words, because w is able to read my tone and body language well enough, and we trust each other enough that safe words are rarely called for. most of the time, she can tell when we need to adjust things before i need to use a safe word. but i still feel that having the safety is vital--we both need to know that there is that backup. just as with using seatbelts in the car, or having a smoke detector in the apartment: we don't intend to use them, they are not the first line of safety. but they are there just in case.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby Eayore » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:05 pm

I find I agree with most of what Britana says when it comes to safe words in my particular circumstances - but I think Jigsaw Analogy is also making an excellent point which I had never really thought of, about having to be able to stop immediately when there is a safety issue at stake.

We don't have a safe word. I think what I would do (for example if a stroke landed really badly and I was afraid some physical damage could be done to me internally), is I would say something like "You've got to stop now." To me, it is inconceivable that my wife would carry on if ever I said that. So in a sense we have a safe word in place, it's just that we've never needed to define that it had to be a particular word. Now I come to think of it, I am not sure why a particular word has to be chosen. This is the part that I don't really understand.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:55 am

why a particular word? i guess it's like having a carbon monoxide detector. it's not that you *use* it, but it's there, just in case.

with me and w, our safewords have some nuance: i can use "red light" if things have to stop right away, and "yellow light" if it just needs to be a little more cautious. we both know exactly what those mean.

do we use them? not much. we stay in communication during a spanking.

actually, it occurs to me that it would've been a good thing a few weeks ago, when we'd gotten entangled in a serious power struggle, if *either* of us had thought to use a safeword to reset what was happening. i should suggest that to w. safewords are for tops, too.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby Eayore » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:06 pm

Yes, I can see how that would work.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby Sara'sGirl(SG) » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:23 am

This thread has gotten a new breath of life with the new people around here! :D

I'm gonna chime in (again) and say that I definitely do not think that having a safe word automatically/necessarily/or even LIKELY means that one is topping from the bottom. The way it works for us, is that I'm an adult. Being an adult who needs discipline does not absolve me of my partnership IN said discipline. Our goal is the same: for me to follow rules that are best for me and our relationship. S is no more capable an adult than I am at recognizing this (well, sometimes I DO feel like she is, but rationally, I am just as capable).

Is a phrase just as useful? Eayore, I would say absolutely, in your relationship. It's virtually inconceivable that your wife would continue if you flat out told her to stop, and, frankly, I'm guessing (stereotypically, I know) that you could probably physically STOP her if you needed to, AND that if she DID continue after you said, "You need to stop right now" you wouldn't feel "abused." You would recognize that wires had gotten crossed or something.

I'm not allowed to protest during spankings, but that's b/c I'm supposed to be demonstrating a properly accepting and submissive attitude regarding my punishment. I DO frequently say "OW" though, and it's certainly conceivable that I would say "Stop," "Please, no more" or "I don't want you to spank me any more." Honestly, I'm almost positive any of these would stop S immediately. But what if she thought I was just protesting (as any well spanked bottom might) and didn't realize something had actually frightened me?

I think that SHE's far more worried that something like that could happen than I am. I put a lot on her, asking her to spank me so it hurts, and know how much is enough, and not to let me off even if I say "ow". The safe word makes it so I am just as responsible as she is for watching out for my safety.

Does she just spank until I say it? Never. Does she ignore other cues regarding how I'm feeling? Never. But this way she can spank even when I say "Ow, stop!" and know that I AM still a consenting adult, and she is not violating me in any way.

My .02 (again). :)
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby Naughty butt Nice » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:35 am

Well put OneSong. I personally have never used a safe word, however I know that if I were to say, "that isn't hurting right." or "that pain in scaring me." My hubby would stop and take that into consideration. He would ask me what I thought we needed to do. Such as whether it was so bad we needed to stop and try again later or if we just needed to readjust. We both know that it wouldn't get me out of trouble, it just would stop action causing the problem. So, it is not topping from the bottom if you are still going to get in trouble, it is just protecting me from any harm. Like I said I have never used it, but I know that I could, however I also know that I would still get my full punishment it just may get delayed a little bit if need be.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby Nat » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:29 pm

We don't have a safe word either. Like eayore, if I said something like "you've got stop now" I'm sure she would, or if I moved (or fought to move) from the position I'm in that would accomplish the same thing. But I can't imagine a situation where Liz would put me in danger, and other than that when I'm being spanked she's in charge of how hard it is.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby jenlynn » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:51 pm

We don't use safewords either, we haven't ever needed one. I think that may be due to this was my idea, he was vanilla-ish when we started, so most of the time he actually stops before he should.
Not to say he isn't effective, I've had bruises that lasted weeks, felt it sitting down for days afterwards (stupid paddle!!).
Also, if its really long session, he tends to talk to me during the spanking, and asks questions about what I'm learning or wont do again. He can tell by my answers, or non answers when its uh, good enough.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby lana » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:10 pm

JigsawAnalogy wrote:i don't think safe words relieve the spanker of responsibility.

perhaps there is an assumption that safe words are used routinely? in my household, this isn't true.

they are more of a safety backup. think about fire extinguishers. we have one, but that doesn't relieve us of the responsibility for paying attention when we're cooking. it just means that if something goes wrong, we've got a way to keep it from turning into a total disaster. our car has airbags, which doesn't mean we don't drive safely, but if something goes wrong, we have a little extra backup.

and the safe word doesn't mean that i (as a bottom) am in control of what happens. it just means that if i know something is wrong, usually something that w wouldn't be able to tell on her own, i can give her that information quickly.

i don't abuse the safe word. there is a lot of trust between the two of us, and w knows that the only time i would use it is if there were a real problem.

in some ways, it makes the consensual non-consent work better. during a spanking, she knows that i'm going to be asking for it to be over, and telling her i don't want any more. she continues to use her judgment about whether i've had enough. but if i use a safe word, she will know that there is something that is actually *wrong*; often, it's just a chance to pause and check in. in our case, using a safe word doesn't automatically mean the spanking is over, it just stops long enough to correct whatever the problem was.

i think some of the resistance to safewords is part of a fantasy wherein the spanker is somehow omniscient, and is able to know--without communication--what is best for the bottom. to me, that's more about fantasy than reality. no matter how much i want her to, w is not going to be able to read my mind. she knows me well, and most of the time she can tell what i need, but that doesn't mean she knows everything that's going on for me.

and more, i am more aware of the sensations in my body than she is, and i'm the one who can tell when a stroke landed wrong or in a place that will cause the wrong kinds of pain. (a sore but is acceptable, but a re-broken tailbone is not an acceptable part of discipline. nor would it fall into the category of "safe and sane," even if it happened consensually.)

clearly, i feel pretty strongly on this subject.

and what's funny is, we so rarely use safe words, because w is able to read my tone and body language well enough, and we trust each other enough that safe words are rarely called for. most of the time, she can tell when we need to adjust things before i need to use a safe word. but i still feel that having the safety is vital--we both need to know that there is that backup. just as with using seatbelts in the car, or having a smoke detector in the apartment: we don't intend to use them, they are not the first line of safety. but they are there just in case.

:yeahthat: Ours is redlight and only to be used for emergencies. Havent had to use it with hoh.I did have to use it twice with my exbf. Once he was on me holding me down and i couldnt breathe and once i was scared cause he was using a heavy wood paddle and not restraining me enough for safety. Iam yelling "Stop No more!" all the time so i need the word.
It doesnt get me out of the spanking . Just to get the situation sorted out.
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Re: Safe Words?

Postby Eayore » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:33 pm

lana wrote:I am yelling "Stop No more!" all the time so i need the word.

You made me chuckle over this, lana.
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