Using TTWD for specific issues

Perhaps your household works without a structure. Go you. The rest of us mortals need to figure out how this thing works. This is a spot for talking about how we create the structure of our various domestic arrangements.

Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby muse » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:44 pm

I've really enjoyed the reading I've done on the site so far but it will take me weeks to get through everything that has been posted to date, so apologies if this has been raised before.

Does anyone use Discipline to achieve a specific aim? For example in the past I gave up smoking with the help of a rather fierce ex and the thread of punishment if I were to smoke. Sadly the effect only lasted as long as our relationship and I am currently trying to give up once again but it did work at the time.

In the last couple of years I have found little time to exercise due to work and study commitments (ok that's a bit of a lame excuse I know) but I'd really like to get in shape again for both my physical and mental wellbeing. Tonight while discussing my lack of fitness and disappointment at my ever-expanding waistline with my partner, Hy suggested I put on a dvd and did a workout. I felt a bit sulky at hys suggestion but before I could say anything, hy laughed and said I could always watch some tv if I didn't want to. This stopped me in my tracks when it occurred to me that I wanted hym to tell me what to do with the threat of some sort of punishment if I didn't comply and told hym so (ooops). As we had been discussing this site earlier and our interest in establishing some sort of structure to what we do, hy thought this was a good idea and set me a time by which I should start my workout and instructions to text hym when I had finished (we don't live together), which I did.

I'd like us to make this part of our regular routine but I'm slightly worried that by handing over this responsibility for myself that in some way I am avoiding responsibility for my own actions and their consequences. If I'm honest, I'd like hym to take responsibility for other areas of my life that I feel are out of control but I feel a combination of guilt at my abrogation of self determination and of placing such a big responsibility on hys shoulders.

I was wondering if others had used this method for achieving particular aims and how both sides felt about it.
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:32 pm

we use domestic discipline to achieve some specific aims, and have done so from the beginning.

my thought on it is this: if it's something that i know i'm not succeeding in getting myself to do, how could it be less than responsible if i choose to ask for help with it? that's still a responsible choice.

the important thing to remember is that, even with external discipline, ultimately we're still responsible for ourselves. it's one thing to ask for help with something we can't manage, and it would be something else to blame our misdeeds on the other person not following through.

let's say i had a problem with not remembering to pay the bills, and asked w to help me with that. and then, for whatever reasons, she wasn't able to follow through with a punishment, so i wound up not paying the bills that month. it would still be *my* responsibility, and it wouldn't be fair for me to expect her to pay the overages. (this is a totally fictional scenario, since 1, i am pretty good with remembering to pay the bills, and 2, it's w's money paying our bills, so she'd pay the overages whether or not this was a disciplinary thing. but i digress.)

but going back to the bill-paying: would it be less responsible if i had my bills set up on auto-pay because i had trouble remembering to pay them? that, in my mind, is as much of an abrogation of self-determination as asking for help with discipline. which is to say, i don't think that it is.

given that i *ask* for help, and asked w to be in charge, for me, it's a way that i can take responsibility for things i'm not succeeding in doing in other ways. four years into all of this, i'm finally getting to a point where i'm likely to remember to eat three meals a day. if w were no longer able to discipline me, would it be w's fault if i didn't eat properly? no. it would be my fault, whether or not she was giving the punishments. but her ability to enforce lower-level consequences helps me to avoid the more dire consequences of going for days on end without eating.

there are lots of things people use to help themselves accomplish goals, and i think that discipline is a tool on that level. we use alarm clocks to wake up in the mornings, when obviously, we could instead choose to go to bed early enough that we would wake up without help. we buy convenience foods rather than cooking everything from scratch. we drive cars rather than walking 20 miles to get where we're going. i have all kinds of electronic reminders that let me know what i'm supposed to be taking care of. and i've got w ready to discipline me if i break the rules we've decided on (which largely involve things i was having trouble managing on my own).

that's a lot of rambling, so i'll leave it at that.
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby bodack » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:29 pm

On a general note I can't see the difference between this and the people who hire personal trainers, nutritionists etc. Ok so the technique is a little different.

In the book "Nan, the Disciplinarian" she talks about putting in an ad in the paper as a "very strict piano teacher". She did have one pupil who she caned. She never figured out if he was into CP or just really wanted to learn to play the piano.
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby G.D. » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:13 pm

Does anyone use Discipline to achieve a specific aim?


To answer the question; no, not at all and yes completely.

To leave it at that would be too concise, even for me, so I will endeavour to elaborate.

No: using ttwd to achieve a specific aim makes me worry about what happens if that aim is not met. My feelings about the reasons I punish and monitor behaviour revolve around wanting to create a sense of security, safety and calmness. I think it is important for a bottom to know that they can make the same mistake over and over again and then rely on me to punish them for it, over and over again.

Yes: I think that we all know what we want out of these non-conventional relationships, so achieving whatever that is then becomes the aim. This will of course vary from relationship to relationship, but I suspect there may be some recurring themes
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby Eayore » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:36 pm

Hello, Muse.

Yes we have used discipline in this way, and I think the success we have had is directly related to how much I (as the one being disciplined) am committed to making the change.

To me, asking for help to achieve something is a responsible thing to do. Abrogation of responsibility in this case would be where I think I no longer have any part in it, and can put the burden onto my partner (and presumably the blame too if it doesn't work). I will admit I am sometimes tempted by this, but I don't think it works, and I am sure it can be frustrating for both parties.

In my opinion, simply by asking the question you show you are unlikely to fall into this 'trap'. Perhaps you could give it a try and see if it helps this time.

You mention you gave up smoking before in a disciplinary relationship, but started again when it ended. Do you think this was purely because the threat of punishment stopped, or were there other issues and emotions around at the time that prompted you to pick up smoking again?
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby muse » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:56 pm

I've no idea how to multi quote on here but you've all raised some interesting points for which I am grateful.

"ultimately we're still responsible for ourselves. it's one thing to ask for help with something we can't manage, and it would be something else to blame our misdeeds on the other person not following through."

JA, I think that sums it up really well and has made me feel a lot clearer about the fact that I'm just asking for help. I have no intention of blaming my partner if I ultimately fail.

"You mention you gave up smoking before in a disciplinary relationship, but started again when it ended. Do you think this was purely because the threat of punishment stopped, or were there other issues and emotions around at the time that prompted you to pick up smoking again?"

Eayore, I'm sure that smoking again was due to the stress of the break-up and if I'm really honest, there was probably an element of "F U, you can't tell me what to do any more" :blush:

I can report that three workouts and two days of healthy eating later, things are going very well and we're spending a lot of time talking about other aspects of our relationship and how this fits in. The method of punishment has yet to be established but it will definitely be something I don't like. As a happy masochist a spanking would probably be counter-productive :D

This has really been an eye-opener for both of us and I'm looking forward to us spending some time together at the end of the week, when we will be able to discuss it further face to face.

Thankyou for all your replies, I love the piano teacher story... I wonder if Doc could advertise as a personal trainer 0:)
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby Eayore » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:44 pm

Well, as one masochist to another, I say let's keep quiet about the counter-productivity of a good spanking, which anyway is a complete myth, foisted on us by people who have other, entirely ulterior and improper motives, and clearly have never tried it for themselves! Wouldn't you agree?
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby Disobedient Girl » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:05 am

Hello muse. I hope things have continued to go well for you since Monday. I am very interested in anyone being disciplined as a means of addressing food and exercise issues. We have decided these things run too deep with me. The risks if I were to 'relapse' in terms of how I feel about myself, and the high chance of me resorting to lies, not to mention the deep, deep water Dadi might have to negotiate to discipline me should things get awkward seem too high. This is a regret though, and I cherish a hope I might one day be in a place where I could be subject to discipline on the health front.

I think it is a great thing if you can do it. I am sure you will have read Kitten and Lutra's posts which make inspiring reading. As a second generation binge eater (!) I feel I have to take these things on myself. And as it happens at present I am doing quite well. Before I went to the gym last night Daddi said 'Work hard, Girl', in that special tone, and although she won't send me she will encourage me in all these things, and recalling the way she told me to work hard is a valuable (and very sexy) motivator when I am there.

Being disciplined about food is one of my hottest fantasy subjects, incidentally, and in my fantasy life this runs to extremes.

Since I've been with Dadi I've given up smoking, (ciggarettes, cannabis and then cigarettes again - having started whilst in Ireland for a series of sick bed visits and funerals). Although I was subject to a vast amount of 'vanilla' encouragement and nagging (girlfriend and teenage son working in concert) I did eventually stop my myself. One day I might post about the cannabis as a tale in its own right because it has been a big deal in our relationship and my persistence did nearly break us and I spent at least a year lying outrageously about it. The day after I finally stopped and she gave me a hell of a beating which was to (and did) have the effect of drawing a line under that. Now that I am a non- smoker I am subject to discipline to stay off. And that does work. New Year's Eve I was out with out Dadi and would definitely have indulged in the much loved Marlboro Light except I knew I would have to tell and I would be punished hard. Ditto the dope.

So back to the subject of TTWD to achieve a specific aim - for several months now I have been forbidden to swear - discipline for its own sake - Dadi is found of having me repeat the Obedience is it own Reward - and although I am nowhere near perfect I have improved a lot. Punishements in clude writing lines on a slate, the hairbrush (of course), being caned and the near notorious cold shower.

Can I finish off by saying I love the picture of the girl on the stairs. Very very evocative.
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Re: Using TTWD for specific issues

Postby HerKitten » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:20 pm

As dadi's girl said, yes, Lutra and I are tackling very specific issues with discipline. You can read our threads on it..

http://www.thisthingwedo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762 and http://www.thisthingwedo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=790&start=0

Our program evolves and is refined as we go along - we're barely a month in - and I try to post updates about it. As does she.

As I've written before, when you hand over responsibility, in my eyes you are taking more accountability. Because it works like this: You can do things blindly, like eat poorly and not exercise and get into a haze. When you have to report those things day-by-day and you realize what you do, why you do it, and why you shouldn't do it. It wakes you up.

Let's put it this way. I didn't want to go to the gym today. At all. I put it off and put it off. I actually asked her to threaten me (despite my floating gym strike) so I would go to the gym. We're going to have to retool that.

It's hard to give over control I get that (oh and we're LD, so I understand the having to use text and phone), but it's worth it. It really is. And the communication it creates? Priceless.
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