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This thing we do • View topic - Codependency vs. Submission

Codependency vs. Submission

In a perfect world, discipline would cure all ills. But in the real world, not so much. How do we deal with those diagnoses that spanking just can't make go away. (You know, depression, ADD, DID/MPD. The thing a therapist would put on your medical record to convince the insurance company that they have to pay up, if you had a therapist and health insurance.)

Codependency vs. Submission

Postby Meg » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:53 pm

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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby pinecone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:02 pm

thanks for starting this thread, amethyst!

it does sometimes feel like a tricky math problem or a riddle (maybe it's just the heat here) trying to figure out the difference between setting a healthy boundary and codependent controlling. D recently told me he won't set consequences for me not eating regularly (he doesn't want to be "responsible"), but he WILL punish me if i'm acting bitchy because i'm hungry. somehow that seems relevant, given that he and i are both totally paranoid about codependency creeping in to our relationship. i actually wouldn't mind having him enforce my eating habits, but am willing to wait until we've solved the riddle.
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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby Meg » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:33 pm

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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:35 am

Hmmmmmmmm.

Eating is one of my rules, for a variety of reasons (okay, the reasons consist largely of the fact that I can forget to eat, and that stresses W out). And I've had a lot of rules that might be "none of W's responsibility," and our basic approach is that as partners, we have the right and responsibility to look out for each others' well-being.

But then I think about something like me quitting smoking. This is something I asked for W's help with, and it's something that she wasn't able to help me with in the ways that I wanted. I've had to accept that it really was my responsibility, not because W doesn't love me or because she didn't want to help, but because that was something where I needed to be the one primarily in charge of the process of quitting. The fantasy of her being able to end my addiction with spanking was nice, but it was a *fantasy*.

I guess that one way of looking at it is that addiction is a different thing to grapple with than a bad habit. So you might want to look at what your issues with eating are--whether it's forgetfulness or an eating disorder--and deal with things accordingly.


But back to the codependency vs. submission thing... once I became an adult, my response to the codependency in my family was pretty much to cut myself off from them. I have what might be called a cordial but distant relationship with them (literally distant, for most of my adult life). For years, the way I could avoid being enmeshed was by being physically distant: "Oh, I'm so sorry you lost your job because you your boss is an idiot. I'd let you stay here, but, oh darn, I live 3000 miles away."

W and I have both worked hard on having a healthy relationship, which can sometimes be a struggle for us, since neither of us came from families where that was modeled. I think I, at least, have to thank some kind of divine intervention for our finding each other, since we really are healthier as a couple than we are separately!


I also want to note that W and I have a rule about my "attitude," which could fall under the category of being bitchy... it works for us. If W gets to the point of punishing me for something, I generally recognize that I was out of line (at least, by the time I'm getting punished for it I do!).

To me, the biggest difference between codependence and submission is that codependence tends to support or increase unhealthy behavior, and for those of us for whom submission is necessary, it tends to support or increase healthy behavior. It might be harder, and feel less "natural" to those of us who grew up in codependent households, but in the end, we feel better than we would without it.

I hope I haven't completely wandered off-topic here....
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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby Meg » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:12 am

I guess that I have trouble with the entire concept that asking for help/discipline with something is avoiding responsibility for it. Frankly, telling me that is likely to get me to forget the entire ttwd regime completely. Of course, there are things that Obsidian might not be comfortable with...or what I would like might not be workable...but, Obsidian just telling me "No" to something is not problematic. Her telling me that ASKING for such help is codependent and avoiding responsibility IS VERY problematic.

Now, where ttwd/dd MIGHT get to seem like I am avoiding responsibility is when I, ummm, blame Obsidian for my behavior if she is not consistent with discipline...not that I have EVER done that :blush: :blush: :blush: That is/has been taken care of with....well, discipline, as well...which can be rather effective to stop that attitude. :blush: :blush: :blush:
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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:34 am

That makes sense. I agree that asking for help (in an assertive, non-manipulative way, in which you ultimately take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions) is NOT codependent.

How I looked at it when W and I were just starting discipline, and it was mostly focused on my work on my dissertation, was like this: the natural consequences of not working on this thing with a distant deadline and no immediate repercussions were both too distant and too extreme. I needed something smaller and more immediate to keep me on track. W wasn't responsible for my success or failure, she was just helping to keep me on track with something where I needed some assistance.
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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby Meg » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:16 pm

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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby W-Jigsaw'sBoss » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:25 pm

This conversation reminds me that you haven't told us lately how your grandmother is- how's that drama going?


"I am loving, firm and flexible. Kind of like Lexan."
:cheesy:
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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby W-Jigsaw'sBoss » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:26 pm

oh, shit. was that in a private message? JA- you have permission to delete these two posts or move them.


"I am loving, firm and flexible. Kind of like Lexan."
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Re: Codependency vs. Submission

Postby Meg » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:26 am

Hi W,

Yes, that was in a private message; however, don't worry about it, but I will respond more fully via private message. That situation has resolved itself to a certain extent...although, there are still some residual issues/drama surrounding it. :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:
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