Unravelling

[Homeatlast]

We seem to be on a break from dd or maybe it's permanent, I don't know. IC has started suffering anxiety attacks and so can't be there for me in the way that I need her. It took so much to tell her about my dd need and for me to start letting her take control that I don't know how to deal with myself right now. My head knows that I should accept the situation, that there is no fault, that I should be supporting her. I love her so much but my need is overwhelming for her to make ME safe. I feel like crap, very selfish but I am really scared here. Wish I could make myself strong again and not need dd or someone else to make it better. Unravelling and terrified.

[Danielle]

Of course I am going to say a bunch of stuff that probably won't help at all, but...

Alison and I have been through several periods where we have suspended the DD. And one time in particular where I/we didn't know if or when when would resume. It was scary because I don't think this is something I could live without. As up front as I can be about my need for it, getting down to the specifics was incredibly difficult for me and when we hit those times of having to stop, I always feel like a fool for ever saying any of it, for telling her anything. For being so needy and for my needs being so weird and making me feel like a freak. I feel betrayed in someway. Like because I was open and honest with her about my needs and desires, she can't have any problems, in any way, with what we are doing. Of course, that is not really the case, she gets to have issues and problems as much as I do. Being the bottom does not give me exclusive rights to all the mental health issues. (Thought it would be a lot easier if it did.) Or if we could at least have our issues one at a time, that would help. But it doesn't work like that, does it?

And it can be even worse when what I need or want triggers her issues, which then in turn, trigger mine. It's all so much fucking fun when it gets down to the shit. Just know that it is not selfish to have your own issues and needing DD does not mean you're not strong. You figured out what it was that would help you and you got up the balls to ask for it. That shows great strength.

Beyond that, I don't know what to say other than... don't give up on everything yet. Make sure IC knows that even if you can't do much physically to be there for her, that you do support her and are there for as much as you can be. As I am sure she is for you.

I'm sorry you are scared, and that you feel alone and weak. I wish there was anything I could say that would change those things for you. I'll keep a good thought for you both.

[Homeatlast]

Thanks Danielle. We have just had a talk and I told her we are done with dd. She said she didn't think we should make that decision yet but I was pretty stubborn and said it has left me too vulnerable. After having opened myself up I feel I have left myself without my previous defences and I really don't know how to take care of myself. I can't believe I feel so pathetic. I hear what you say and know you are right in my head but my heart is screaming 'no'.


I just wanted her to tell me 'no' that she would decided when we are done and flip me over her knee for being disrespectful I am such a child.

So yep this is shitty but I really appreciate the support - thanks.

[Danielle]

Okay, what I'm about to say is based on outside observations, and only knowing what you have let us know, so take it with a grain of salt.

Haven't you said that one of the reasons you wanted the DD is because you have issues with control and needing to be in control of everything all the time? If that is the case, it looks to me like maybe you are doing that right now. You know you should not make any permanent decisions in the state you are in and with what your partner is going through. IC has even asked you not to, which means she is not abandoning ship, but you feel out of control because you are not getting what you need, right now, in the way you need it, so you are taking control by putting a stop to everything. And it is not what you really want. Or the sentences- "I just wanted her to tell me 'no' that she would decided when we are done and flip me over her knee for being disrespectful. I am such a child." -would not exist. You still want and need the DD, clearly.

And maybe something to think about, (not that I always accomplish this, or else I would not hear it so often) Alison has said that once the DD relationship has started, its not just about the one who initiated it any more. That everything that happens in it, every time I yellow light something or want to stop doing it, she is affected. She often feels like she has done it wrong and gets very upset when she can't give me what I need. (I can only say this right now because it is not me in the middle of what you are going through. When it is me I have a very hard time being sympathetic toward her at all.)

Also, I have discovered that feeling vulnerable in situations like that is temporary, because ultimately I love Alison and I trust her, she is not here to hurt me. I hope you'll be able to give this some time and some more thought, but know that you have friends and support out here no matter what you decide.

[JigsawAnalogy]

i'm with danielle on this one.

it's hard. but, face it, relationships are hard. anyone who tells you otherwise... well, maybe there *are* people who don't have to struggle through relationships. i'm not talking about stuff that really is irreconcilable, but my experience is that it takes a lot of work to maintain a relationship. it's like a house or a garden. it's not about whether it's work, it's about whether you're willing to do the work. (does this mean a couples' therapist is the equivalent of a scantily clad pool girl? if so, we TOTALLY picked the wrong therapist.)

i've had those times where for whatever reason, i wanted to throw in the towel. read through the board, and you'll see evidence of that. and a bunch of times, w went along with it. it didn't work, and the fallout was bad for both of us. after several years, it's now one of my rules that i'm not allowed to call it quits. but it took us a long time to get to that place.

in the case of my own relationship, it's because, especially early on, w was ambivalent. she wasn't sure whether this was the right thing, so when i made my persuasive arguments about why we should give up, she tried to do the right thing by going along with me. because she, in fact, is not a mind reader.

that said, it's possible that DD isn't what you need. or that it's too much of a risk for you right now. or that it's too scary. or that it's not what will work in your relationship. i couldn't say for certain. my observation has been that most people who get it together to ask their partner for ttwd really do need that kind of structure at some level. and it's the kind of thing where, once we get so close to having those needs met, we want it all. and in some ways, it's more painful to have the needs half-met than to not have them met at all, and so we back out when things don't run perfectly. or maybe that's me.

[BickaBecka]

*hugs*

I'd say give it a chance. This seems all very sudden. Your feelings may mellow a bit in time.

[Homeatlast]

Thanks all.

Danielle - a little disconcerting that someone who only knows me through a few Internet posts has my number better than some of my 'real time' friends! You are absolutely right about the control issue. The first thing I do when uncertain is get bossy and start making decisions for anyone and everyone! I could feel the stress levels well into the red zone when I was TELLING IC my decision. no sense of being in this together - very disrespectful.

I apologised this morning and asked if we could redo last nights conversation tomorrow. She readily agreed saying she thought it was a mistake to just give up (especially as I apparently still owe her some lines - I guess that comment itself is pretty telling about her preference about continuing!)

I've calmed down a little and hopefully we will sort things out tomorrow. I'll no doubt post again and let you know how we do.

Thanks again all - really helpful in getting my head clearer and treat IC with the respect she absolutely deserves but my bratty self forgets!

Hugs

[BickaBecka]

I've encountered the same experience... I think there is a shared commonality in this forum that enables us to better understand or relate to each others needs. Friends who don't get TTWD may not have this commonality, and view their own (and hence, others') relationships differently.

I'm glad you were able to work things out after thinking about them for a bit, and having a chance to calm down.
*Hugs*

[Homeatlast]

Hi

so IC and I spoke some more yesterday. She said she had been very unhappy with my 'decision' but had felt too anxious about life in general that day to feel strong enough to argue.

We have agreed that we will try again with dd. IC feels that it is part of us now and we can't just ignore my need for it. I know that is true but in trying to take control I was being unrealistic.

I saw my new psychiatrist again yesterday - still not sure how I feel about CBT therapy - very different from all the counselling I've had in the past - but I'm open minded. So IC and I decided that we are going to try and amend some of my rules and goals to compliment the therapy. Adding things like negative thinking and self criticism to things that are punishable (within reason - we acknowledge that I do have an illness!) I can see how that will be really helpful to me and IC feels happier with the idea we are not just dealing with my bad behaviour towards her but contributing to something positive to help me. I think we were anyway but this will just be a bit more specific.

She still hasn't decided whether or not to punish me for how badly I disrespected her this week. I think she should as I have to acknowlege that it was pretty crappy but she usually errs on the side of lenience and making excuses for me. I have tried to talk to her about the fact that it is not really helping me to do that - but hey, 1 step at a time.

I have also asked her to come visit this site again and maybe get some support from the other Tops who have no doubt gone through the same sort of stuff and have now learned how to deal with their Bottoms effectively - I may regret asking her to do that but it seems better than me trying to coach her how to be a Top! She has commented how happy she is that I found this site and that it seems to be helping deal with the fact that I need ttwd and getting us through these difficult patches.

That's it for now. Thanks again for all you support.

[BickaBecka]

Hi HAL,

I'm glad things seem to be working better for you. I seem to be in a similar situation in having a top who errs far on the side of lenience. I'm also familiar with the uncomfortable feeling involved in trying to explain something like that to her.

You'll find you'll get through this. G and I have stopped DD a couple of times, and what we've found out is that it's best NOT stopped during the difficult times. In fact, that's when it's needed the most.

[Danielle]

I'm so glad y'all got to a more productive place. It would be great if it was all smooth sailing, but.. you know, very little sails completely smoothly. I know if the bad DD moments did not happen then some other part of our relationship would be having a bad moment. Probably due to not doing DD. May as well be working on something that will ultimately help me/us.

I am curious about your CBT therapy. I have been in therapy off and on since I was 13, never CBT though and Alison seems to think it is the kind of therapy I need right now. Of course, until all visa's etc are done I can't get anything through the NHS. So blah. Don't know what I'm really asking here, I guess I'm interested in knowing how you feel about the process.

Hope you have a good week.

[Homeatlast]

Thanks both. It is a tough road but one worth travelling I think. Got a spanking last night for my behaviour last week. Really not that bad but she waited until I just got out the bath as she thought that would be more effective! Sneaky, I think the woman's learning. We revisited our 'contract' last night and included some stuff about the need for consistecy and for IC to at least acknowledge if she thinks a punishment is due even if she is not able to follow through that day - hopefully the kid in me will feel less abandoned then.

Danielle you asked about my experience of CBT, as it is a bit off topic here I'll pm you.

Cheers

[bodack]

I had to do a double take when I saw CBT since that can mean something completely different in the BDSM world.

After I looked it up I remembered that it is the type of therapy that I went through for four years. It was useful for me but it doesn't cover everything. But at least it seems to be better founded in clinical practice than EMDR therapy which seems to be all of the rage now.

Good luck.

[JigsawAnalogy]

i think EMDR is useful in very specific contexts (for coping with particular sorts of PTSD) but i can't see how it would be useful in any other context.

it is funny how we come to acronyms from very different places.

i personally think that CBT is helpful as a part of therapy, but there are lots of contexts where it can't stand on its own. but then, my personal experience with CBT (the therapy version, not having the equipment for the other. ) is that when i innocently decided that's what i needed to deal with writer's block, i managed to open up a carefully closed can of worms and went on a full-scale visit to crazyville. but really, i think i was headed for crazyville one way or another, so it's not something i think would happen to everyone.

i still use a lot of elements of cognitive behavioral therapy in coping with my own stuff, it's just that sometimes, one needs to have a mix of other methods in there or it doesn't work that well. but my personal experience is that CBT is one of the few kinds of therapies you can do through books if a therapist isn't available. at least, you can learn to use some of the tools, depending on your situation.

[Danielle]

Nick, I'm glad that things worked out for you surrounding all of that. And thank you, and everyone who weighted in on the CBT therapy. I have some thoughts and other things to say about it, but I'm going to have to get back to it later, right now it is just a little much for where I am.