Refusing to take a punishment

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Here's a section for those questions about discipline. In this case, we're *all* able to stand in for SpankoNanny, and we are all free to ask questions. Got a problem in your household? Check in to see what our good friend (but our firm, strict, caring friend) SpankoNanny has to say.

Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby lana » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:00 am

Blackbird said , "Lana, I really love the 'instant punishment' part of what you describe. I think that would help me no end if T did that more - and I find it really sexy to think about that control...."

When i get these intense, on-the-spot spankings (getting no warmups or rituals) i hate them while theyre happening and I try to avoid them (not only cause of the pain but also because i dont like myself to act like that)--but its like I know in the back of my head im acting rude but im stressed and do it anyway because of the mood I'm in.

As i said in another thread, in weekly sessions the no-ritual thing doesnt work very well--cause it seems like a rush-thru job that he's not even taking seriously. But in that particular situation when Im under stress and yelling or being too bossy or too rude to my hoh, i still hate it but it is what I need. My hoh is really pretty irate and he keeps it up till im apologizing and then some. I dont get very many of them --maybe about 3 or 4x a year -- i'm not a HSP but more of a Type B. im much more apt to be spanked for procrastinating or forgetting something important than for a temper flare-up.

As for ever acting this way in a restaurant or in front of others--i havent ever done that. But i have in the car w my exbf and that time the warning DID work .I guess i didnt fancy finding out if he really would pullover and id get switched on the side of the road or in the forest we were driving thru.. That was a fantasy of mine that I never want to happen in RL.

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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby Ladyinredbottom » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:32 pm

I love reading threads like this one. Mostly because I am happy knowing that there are other people out there going through very similar things to me. It helps to get an outside opinion on some of the more basic problems of ttwd such as not agreeing with a punishment. My HOH and I have always had the agreement that if I feel a punishment is unjust I am to voice that opinion respectfully before the punishment commences. Generally he asks if there is anything I have to say for myself right before he begins each spanking. This is where I am able to discuss the reason for my actions (not excuses! he hates excuses!), explain to him why I don't agree with being punished, or in rare cases beg for mercy! :pray9: :prince:

J is by nature a very laid back compassionate man and I am very assertive and straight forth. In our case we use ttwd to balance out the power in our family :shake: When I look at my childhood I can clearly see where my need for ttwd came from. From the time I was 4 years old I was beat with a belt almost daily for very small infractions such as slouching at the dinner table or accidentally leaning up against the back of the couch . I was expected to be a little adult in everything I did. I cooked and cleaned for my younger brothers and sisters and took on the roll of mom to them. Protecting them from the very people who were supposed to love me and take care of me. At first I took the abuse because I knew nothing else. Eventually I learned that my friends households didn't work like mine. As i got older I lashed out at everyone around me because I was angry and begged people to help me. No one ever did. As soon as I could make it on my own I left home. I was gone for over 3 weeks before they even noticed I was gone. That was over 20 years ago.

Needless to say I've had control issues in my life and it's very difficult to surrender control of anything to somebody else. My first response to most things is defensive out of survival instinct even though I haven't had to fight for my life since I was 14 years old. My husband understands that and through ttwd as helped me understand my fear of the world and let go of some of the anger I have been bottling up for years. He has shown me that punishment should be administered out of love not of anger or hatred. He has never once made me feel unloved or inferior to him. He has restored my faith in humanity itself as he has shown me unconditional love and understanding.

Its this love and understanding that shows me his true strength. Its not his words of wisdom or the things he gives me that help me to submit to him. It's the understanding that I am 100% safe (physically and emotional) in his arms and that he will protect me with all that he is. I need to feel his strong arms in both love and discipline to help keep me centered in life and help me through the challenging times. I have come a long way under his care and we still have a long way to go but at least we are going there together. :driver:

anyways thanks for letting me vent. What I was trying to say is thanks guys for allowing me to see that I'm not alone in this world.
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby blackbird » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:42 am

Hello ladyinredbottom

As I was the one who I started this thread, I really want to tell you how much it means to read your post today. I identify very strongly with all you say - it is not in the least a "vent" to me. It's a very honest and open account of how ttwd has helped you overcome your fear of trusting another to want you and care for you in the right ways.

This is especially poignant today for me as I've come to the forum looking for a way back to ttwd. T and I have lost our way for the moment. It's a confusing mixture of my life improving, therefore I have more gumph to control, and his own challenges to open up more to life emotionally too. You don't say if your partner has had similar issues to you, but T and I mirror each other in how we were brought up, or rather the in the pain and confusion it caused us. He is sensitive and compassionate, and these qualities were trampled in him by powerful adults who he took pains not to imitate as he grew up. So it's a struggle for him to be open to me, physically and emotionally sometimes. Especially when my "histrionics" can easily crush the life out of him.

But we keep returning to it. He has a very powerful dominant side which, when in operation, is quite capable of taking the reins. It's just I won't let him at the moment.... A small person inside me is not trusting just now. Your post is a reminder that it's all possible. Thanks!!

Blackbird
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby blackbird » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:18 am

After I posted, the word "histrionics" bothered me. It's more complex than that. Some of the vitality I am re-finding (thanks, ironically, to being in a relationship again) is threatening to T. In turn, his need to "shut me down" sometimes runs counter to my burgeoning life-force. We need to find a way for my energies to inflate our relationship with T still staying dominant. It's something JA has talked about. Tricky.

Hmmmm.... :thinking:

Any ideas anyone?

B
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby splorange » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:00 am

Ladyinredbottom, I also want to say I didn't see this as a vent, and give you a whole-hearted thanks for sharing. My heart goes out to the child you used to be, but I'm so happy you are in this relationship now, doing so well, and happy. You are so lucky to have a great husband and you deserve him. I love how life-affirming this discipline is for so many of us. I didn't have an unhappy or traumatic childhood in any sense of those words but of course still have issues, and it's amazing how ttwd gets into the heart of all of them.

Hmmm. I'm using the word heart a lot (I'm usually a very logical, left-brained, clear-thinking, intellectually-driven, Vulcan). LAME!
'I had made the mistake of powering up my consciousness without having the appropriate scaffolding in place'

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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby splorange » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:15 am

Hmmm, blackbird, I don't have many suggestions, but I do often experience something similar. When I'm being punished regularly, I'm calm, I'm relaxed, and I feel safe in myself. But my loud, confident, boisterous side doesn't flourish under such conditions, and while that me can often be stressed, angry and over the top, it's also the best of me. At the moment we're just trying to balance it so that I have time to be both versions of me, until we find a better solution! It's not perfect, but I recommend.

I'm not sure how it's connected, but somehow I feel this also belongs here - I have some bad bruising after a particularly severe spanking last night, which we both felt was necessary to readjust my attitude after a long break, but we didn't mean to let it get so far. I'm really struggling with the continued pain which I know will last a few days, so I'm trying to decide my reaction to it. And for a moment, I tried out the framing that I deserved it and it was part of my punishment - and that was comforting, and it was easy. But I felt it was too dangerous to redefine a mistake as something I deserved, for what it might do to my understanding of Self. So I go the decidedly less comforting path of accepting that we screwed up as part of the learning process and I'm suffering because of it. And jesus knows my chief is suffering just as much (his reaction to the brusing had me quite scared until I saw for myself, and I thought 'OH. That ain't nothing but a thing' :lol:)

I don't know if this relates to your worry at all! But I felt it belonged here, so maybe it will speak to you. And if it doesn't, well, it's still my story and it's a new derailing of the thread is what it is.
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby blackbird » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:44 am

Yes S, that is the way, tricky though it is to find the balance.

About your bruises, I would definitely have gone the "I deserved it" route in this situation. Because if the chief is mortified, you can be sure he will rectify the mistake in future. I'm sure you can trust him to given his reaction. And the extra submissiveness feeling sore would bring me, every time I sat down at the piano or in my case got on my bicycle would be a helpful reminder of my status.

Maybe you don't have to be the one to figure it all out? Just my thoughts anyway.

B
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby splorange » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:34 am

It's good to go through the tightrope walk several times, I think. I have a feeling that the more often you swing from submissive you to confident you, the more in balance you are and the easier it'll be to unite the 2. When there are long periods in between it's very, very hard. But great that you are restarting ttwd! Both of you know it's not going to be easy, but no attempt in this direction is ever fruitless. (In my opinion.)

Today I am going the well-deserved route. I can see such a huge difference in my chief's confidence since the mega-spanking, so it's impossible to regret it. It was just at the time when I first looked at the bruises (over my shoulder until I could get to a mirror, which distorted their size for me) I felt dizzy and wanted to throw up (either not connected, or a psychological rather than a physiological reaction to the bruising) so I was quite concerned and didn't feel it was right to legitimise THAT kind of punishment. (It just made me think of child abuse victims, who it seems often tell themselves that they deserve what's happening to them because it gives them an element of control - they can reframe their abusive care-taker as good, which is safer than being at the mercy of an abuser, and punishing them because they earned it. That just makes me devastated.)
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby blackbird » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:11 am

I totally agree about real abuse. Does it help to think of it as localised? If it's your bottom, then fine. Anwhere else (accidentally) is not. That helps me.
B
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby JigsawAnalogy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:44 pm

In my case, the only times I've had really significant bruising were from when we went to play parties, and the intention was to go a little further than we would in the normal run of things. So the marks were a souvenir of the experience. Fortunately for ttwd, we'd spent several years doing spankings in a non-disciplinary sense before starting discipline, so I think both W and I had reason to be confident that bruising is temporary.

Comparing it to abuse... well, for me, W's reaction to disciplinary spankings that left marks were a revelation. I don't believe any disciplinary spanking has left the results of some of the spankings I received as a child--and I'm a consenting adult. It helped me to understand that, yes, the things that happened when I was a kid really were NOT okay. And having the chance to talk with W, or to have the responsibility to speak up for my safety during a punishment made a big difference (I am always supposed to let her know if a strike is going somewhere that doesn't feel right, for instance, or if the spanking feels hard enough to be causing the wrong kind of pain).

For us, and within our particular dynamic, it's tended to do more harm when we go through with a punishment when something isn't right--whether it's one of our mental spaces or the sheer physical aspect of it. We've worked on being able to trust each other enough that we can take a step back, reassess, and go back to a punishment in a way that will be more useful.
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Re: Refusing to take a punishment

Postby splorange » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:33 pm

blackbird wrote:I totally agree about real abuse. Does it help to think of it as localised? If it's your bottom, then fine. Anwhere else (accidentally) is not. That helps me.
B


Hmmm. yes, I think so. I think these are boundaries that help chief a lot too, because he is the consummate gentleman and terrified of being a bully... and thinks that anyone who hits women or children is scum. So I think we do both have a very clear division in our heads on what's acceptable.

JigsawAnalogy wrote:In my case, the only times I've had really significant bruising were from when we went to play parties, and the intention was to go a little further than we would in the normal run of things. So the marks were a souvenir of the experience. Fortunately for ttwd, we'd spent several years doing spankings in a non-disciplinary sense before starting discipline, so I think both W and I had reason to be confident that bruising is temporary.


I think confidence with being bruised must help a lot! I managed to calm myself by thinking of all the accidental bruises i've had that cleared up, and what others have said about their spanking related bruising. And over the 3 days i've gone from panic to resignation to pride, so i think next time won't be so bad! But how scary for my chief, to see that he caused it. That's the tough part.
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