Definition of sadism

Whether we call it "domestic discipline" or "rules" or "structure" or just "getting our needs met." This is a spot for those meta discussions about what it is that we do.

Definition of sadism

Postby blackbird » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:42 pm

I know it is almost impossible to agree on the definition of a word like sadism, but I would be so interested to hear peoples' view here of what it means to them and their partners.

Because the word has come up between T and me, as his decription of a part of himself, as we go further towards meeting his needs in ttwd. For a long time, the punishment fit the crime, ie I had to earn one by disobedience to an agreed agenda. But now we are getting into the realms of his pleasure at treating me how he wants, whether I am disobedient or not.

T's definition? Control. It's all about controlling me, however it makes me feel. For him (and me as well) it's not about the severity of punishment inflicted or the acts I must perform, it's about me having no choice about obeying.

I find it wildly attractive but also know how rebellious I will feel as we explore this. REALLY rebellious. We are only talking of it just now, T is a very careful man and is more likely to err on the side of less rather than more in ttwd so I'm in no danger. Except for my bottom, of course....

Hope this topic might get a few to write. I miss our conversations everyone!!!

Blackbird
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

Oscar Wilde
blackbird
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:46 am
spam_b: I am not a spammer, I am genuinely interested in this site
How did you find the board?: I found it by typing domestic discipline into google

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby Lady Governess » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:25 pm

Hi Blackbird. I miss conversation too.

I have to say I would not normally comment on topics like this because they can get complex and heated. I think this is because any word we use can get mistaken....so I'm going to TRY to keep to words of one syllable! (Epic FAIL already!) I'm also going to propose a convention here. how about we discuss Tradiotional Sadism with a capital 'S' and colloquial sadism with a lower case 's'?

I think maybe we need to start by distinguishing between the technical/traditional/dictionary definition of Sadism and the more colloquial uses of it. Technically, it is about gaining sexual gratification from inflicting physical or psychological pain (leaning towards HARM) on someone else. That is the definition associated with the excesses of psychopathy. I hope everyone on this board is agreed that we don't set out to do this to our bottoms/subs. If you do think this way maybe this is not the right place for you!

But the traditional definition seems largely to exclude relationships in which a measure of psychological/ physical pain (NOT HARM) is agreed to be desireable.

So we come to the more colloquial understanding of the term. Here, I think many of us link 'sadism' with enjoying our role as a Top. The struggle comes about when the Top enjoys his/her role and associates it with the traditional term 'Sadism'. For me, the two are not the same. I enjoy inflicting a measure of physical and psychological pain (I LOVE caning and scolding a bottom for example - rarely in that order! Just read my descriptions of how to administer a caning if you don't believe me!). BUT what I enjoy more is knowing that I have 'got it right' for that particular bottom. So in some way my satisfaction in the act is not directly or exclusively related to the act of inflicting pain. I take satisfaction, I suppose, from being just 'sadistic' enough to care for someone who needs it. My objective is to show care and satisfy a need in the bottom. The 'sadism' part is the 'means' to the 'end' of caring.

In the end, I can be as 'sadistic' as I need to be to staisfy both of us. At least in theory. I hope.

Come on boys and girls, let's get this discussion moving! :walklike: :walklike: :walklike:
User avatar
Lady Governess
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:59 pm
spam_b: I am not a spammer. I eat spammers.
How did you find the board?: Recommendation from a friend.

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby blackbird » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:06 am

Oh yes!!! Let's get the conversation going...!!!

I love what you write Lady Governess. It is so how I see the interraction. BUT, I would add from my experience that the "sadist" benefits too. In a mutually inspired D/s relationship, each is getting something life-enhancing....

So... what do YOU get out of it personally (apart from the obvious!)

Blackbird

(Yawn..... we might wake them all up after a hundred years... Where are you Altbob?) :walklike:
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

Oscar Wilde
blackbird
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:46 am
spam_b: I am not a spammer, I am genuinely interested in this site
How did you find the board?: I found it by typing domestic discipline into google

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby Lady Governess » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:28 pm

Me personally? Oh BOY! I thought I'd answered that already......funny how different people see things!

In terms of personality types I fall painlfully heavily into the Choleric camp. These are a few of the things said about people of my personality type:

"Choleric Temperament - this temperament is identified as the most powerful (and potentially destructive) of the temperaments. It is not unreasonable to state that the world’s greatest feared dictators and diabolical criminals were perhaps of the Choleric temperament...... Cholerics are extremely tough-willed. When they have made up their minds they rarely if ever change it, even if they are wrong. Cholerics will seldom listen to the advice of anyone else. They want to have total control over themselves and anyone around them. Cholerics are of the opinion and belief that they know what is best for those around them, and what is acceptable behavior according to them. Cholerics have a tendency to seldom express other emotions such as love, tenderness, warmth and compassion. When other people express these emotions they consider them as unnecessary and useless.

Cholerics believe that no one else can carry out a task as well as them. They have a tendency to overwork themselves, and are prone to burnout. When carrying out various tasks to accomplish goals they are capable of undertaking any behavior necessary to get it done.

They are perfectionistic and even their own flaws are flawless. When they are wrong they will not accept it, their’s is the only way that is correct and matters."

So.... sadism let's me be who I really am. It's one of the few times I don't feel the need to try to moderate my temperament in order to get along with people.

How about you?

:rubhands: :rubhands: :rubhands: :rubhands: :rubhands:
User avatar
Lady Governess
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:59 pm
spam_b: I am not a spammer. I eat spammers.
How did you find the board?: Recommendation from a friend.

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby Eayore » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:15 pm

I love what Lady Governess has written here too (and everything she has written, in fact).

For me personally, sadism is associated with getting sexual pleasure from inflicting pain on another person. I am not sure if that's a definition, but it's as close as I can come to one.

As such, I partly think, "Well, so what's wrong with that?" and at the same time I feel slightly afraid about putting myself in the hands of a sadist. I think I might like to do it once, just to find out what it feels like.

All considered, I'd prefer to be caned for genuine punishment but quite like the idea that the person caning me is also getting some enjoyment out of it.
User avatar
Eayore
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Ascot, UK
spam_b: What is a spam bot?
How did you find the board?: From the Punishment Book

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby blackbird » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:01 am

Sounds like ONE trip to LadyGoverness might be in order, Eayore.... :weg: So nice to see a post from you....

I think Eayore's definition is great, but I like having delved deeper into the choleric perspective, LG. You are frank and upfront. Absolutely delightful. And when I read your post to T I think he might sigh a great sigh of relief. It's not easy being "sadistic" in our world....

T's life-work has been to aid people in terrible circumstances - the polar opposite of being sadistic. He has been burying a very important aspect of himself for a long time. It seems to be emerging now. To pose another question to you, Eayore - how would it be to be with a sadist who was also extremely controlled, fair and compassionate. A bit mind-blowing?

That's my prospect.....

As for me, LG, my truest nature is released through being dominated. I revel, relish and find relief in being at T's mercy - though ALWAYS hate the process of getting there. There is simply NOTHING enjoyable about a spanking for me. It's hideous. And yet I court it, with all my being. Does that explain?.... do ask more.... :boogie:

Blackbird xx
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

Oscar Wilde
blackbird
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:46 am
spam_b: I am not a spammer, I am genuinely interested in this site
How did you find the board?: I found it by typing domestic discipline into google

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby Lady Governess » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:17 am

I love what Lady Governess has written here too (and everything she has written, in fact).


Young Eeyore, you are a silver-tongued flatterer.....and I like it! :lol:

Hi blackbird. Yes, that answers a lot. but since we have started to examine the relationship between a Top and Sadism/sadism, how about youtry to address the relationship between a bottom and Masochism/masochism?

Hard, isn't it?!
User avatar
Lady Governess
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:59 pm
spam_b: I am not a spammer. I eat spammers.
How did you find the board?: Recommendation from a friend.

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby artlover » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:41 pm

I certainly do not consider myself to be a sadist.
artlover
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:31 pm
Location: Connecticut
spam_b: I am most certainly not a spammer
How did you find the board?: I was googling around and there you were!

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby blackbird » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:55 am

LG - I'm really taking time to think about the M/m of masochism for me. I've just gone and looked up the four humours, to understand where I might fit into them and I feel I am a combination of Melancholic and Sanguine - tending towards melancholic. The interesting thing is that in my work I'm definitely a leader, but not at all in the choleric sense (that is my father!) More in the encouragement, "isn't this hard, but let's keep working", "YES! your're getting there sense". I take no pleasure in dominating the process. Yet, I would hate not to have control at the same time.

So, to follow your template like the good submissive I am (!), I think it is relatively easy to find examples of "pure" Masochism - in the sense of someone wanting sexual gratification selfishly for themselves, with no regard for the feelings of the inflictor of the punishment. I'm thinking of a S and M scene someone recounted to me, where a man sat all night being a human ashtray for everyone else, lying on the floor, not speaking or communicating. It's the part that exists purely in one's fantasy I suppose.

The small m variety, which has many nuances, is not really a term I use about myself - though I'm not averse to it really. It's the closest word we have to describe being turned on by being controlled by someone else - in a consensual setting. I have realised over time, that the traditional, big M assumption that masochism is the enjoyment of pain is wholly wrong for me. I used to think I did in my playing days. I would go into sub space and take a huge beating. I would egg the dom on to do more. Therefore I was really in control all the time. Hence it was "playing".

But now, in D/s, I find the pain horrible, it's having all control taken away which is the turn on - a condition created and reiterated by the threat and carrying out of punishment. I KNOW I can't take a hairbrushing in any sort of way that's bearable. I have no control at all over T''s knee. And that opens up my whole personality and makes me feel acceptable through and through. It's a healing place. I suppose to use your example, it let's me be my real self, undone, opened up, surrendered (not without a constant struggle!)

It feels like Alice through the Looking Glass - I pass into a different world of 'me' on the other side of my self-control. I am free to feel loved, I am released from angry defiance and rejection of nurture, I can regress through the pain, after-sting and mortification of punishment into a simpler place of relaxed being. I feel I want to find a new word - something like restoration, redemption, something spiritual to describe the process. Masochism orginated in the name of an author of a story about the cruel dealings of love. Our reaction to the word is instantly one of "that's depravity". It is not joined up emotional thinking. Small m masochism gets closer, but doesn't go far enough.

I will keep thinking about a new word! :hmmmmm:

Hope this is of interest, LG

BB
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

Oscar Wilde
blackbird
Rank 3
Rank 3
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:46 am
spam_b: I am not a spammer, I am genuinely interested in this site
How did you find the board?: I found it by typing domestic discipline into google

Re: Definition of sadism

Postby Eayore » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:24 pm

Lady Governess - thank you for calling me young. But I like to think you are younger than I am.

blackbird, thanks for a very interesting post. Whether pain is enjoyable or horrible... do you think that may depend on whether our brains are flooded with certain chemicals such as endorphins, dopamine, etc.?
User avatar
Eayore
rank 6
rank 6
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Ascot, UK
spam_b: What is a spam bot?
How did you find the board?: From the Punishment Book


Return to What it is that we do

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests